I need an advice for cross-platform engine/framework for desktop PC application development (Windows, MAC, Linux). I see 3 possibilities, Qt, Java and Adobe AIR.
It must be easy to install (run-time is a drawback, but C++ wrapper and/or installer can solve the issue I think).
It must be fast and have a rich GUI (not 3D game, but definitely some 2D graphics).
The development environment must be easy to establish and the UI development tool must have drag&drop functionality to define application layout.
Target application must have native look and feel. The professional paid support should be available.
All of these criteria are met by Qt, with the exception of "native look and feel". There is no such thing as a cross-platform framework with native feel, especially on OS X, where users are very demanding about the "feel" of applications. If you really want native look and feel, you are best served by writing a shared framework in C++ or C# and then providing native GUI on each platform (you can use MonoMac to provide a native Cocoa UI using C# instead of the native Objective-C, if that's your cup of tea).
That said, we've been very happy with Qt (and the Commercial support) for cross-platform development. Particularly the new OpenGL accelerated 2D Scene API makes animated UIs quite easy. QtCreator is a decent IDE with visual designer support.
Contrary to others, probably due to the fact that I worked on a real-time trading Swing application, I consider Java to be the best answer to your requirements (however, i consider this question as subjective, as previous answers already shows). Let me develop.
It must be easy to install (run-time is a drawback, but C++ wrapper and/or installer can solve the issue I think).
Using Java, you can rely upon Java Web Start, which is, as far as i know, the best solution for easy to use applications : you click a link on the browser, and the application is installed in start menu/desktop and started as soon as it is downloaded. Seems like Adobe AIR offers an equivalent feature, but to my mind Java Web Start integrates, due to the deepness of its ecosystem, far more powerfull distribution solutions (like, as an example, the easy ability to generate the .jnlp file on demand).
It must be fast and have a rich GUI (not 3D game, but definitely some 2D graphics).
Contrary to most popular belief, generating good graphics in Java is possible. Take as an example a look at excellent filthy rich clients companion site of the excellent book.
The development environment must be easy to establish and the UI development tool must have drag&drop functionality to define application layout.
Eclipse is a defacto industry standard for IDEs, and it integrate multiple DnD IDE builders. I would simply take as example the recently liberated Windows Builder Pro.
Target application must have native look and feel. The professional paid support should be available.
Well, Swing default look'n'feel is indeed a little different from system one. however, there are excellent third-party ones, listed here, as an example.
Finally, some examples :
the excellent Palantir Technologies blog list some outstanding Swing applications
Gephi is a rather complete and efficient high-volume graph viewer
My previous work (don't consider it as a masked ad, it's only a way to show some rather solid Swing).
I would not recommend Java for desktop development. I do not care what other say, Java is still slow compared to native languages like C++. I would go with Qt. The IDE has a GUI builder and can be integrated into Eclipse or Visual Studio.
Here's a helpful resource:
http://qt.nokia.com/products/
Have a look at Appcelerator Titanium: it basically wraps a web app in a browser. You can have anything you want in a GUI using wen tech, but it looks like an ap[p.
Strangely, nobody mentioned Real Studio (now Xojo) which does meet all your requirements:
It is easy to install and does not require a separate run-time
It compiles to native code so is reasonably fast
It has a good UI library that is native for each platform
The IDE is very nice with drag and drop UI designers
Target applications are fully native and use native controls
First of have to mention http://wxwidgets.org/ , one of the most popular X-platoform frameoworks. Depending on the complexity of your application and the requirements to the "nativeness", a cross-platform framework may work for you. The x-platform applications built with framework usually feel a bit "alien", especially on the Mac, but workable. A good example is http://taskcoach.org/.
If your users are tolerant to hearty download sizes, hefty memory requirements and a bit of non-native look-and-feel then plain Java, eclipse RCP or NetBeans platform can work for you. You may save quite a bit of development time going this route.
However I am not aware of cross-platform framework that satisfies all your requirements.
If you need to get to a production-level application, the strategy that I have seen worked best was to stay native but split the UI-dependent code into cross-platform (e.g. C++ business logic) and UI. This way, you will use native interface building tools (each platform has something good there). Depending on the complexity and "finish" requirements of your application you may actually save time going this route.
A great overview of the "Native X-Platform" process can be found in this answer by Chris Hanson.
Related
I saw some other similar questions on this topic here but they were not very helpful so I a posing this question.
What is the fastest way to convert a reasonably sized, simple web app to a Java desk top based client targeted for pc and mac? Unfortunately I can not share a whole lot of details about the app here due to various reasons. The most complicated UI in the app though is a page that contains a multi level threaded discussions (please see here for an illustrative example of what I am talking about.) The current web app is based on python so I can not re use anything from the server side code (dont think this is an issue)
I have never done any swing or awt or any other Java based thick client GUI work. My thinking is more or less defined by web based applications. I am capable of doing end to end web app development (including backend and decent UI using HTML, CSS and JS) using Java or python. For your answers please focus on Java solutions only.
So here are my questions
What is the best framework or tool I should use? I found some of the following tools on the web as part of my research.
Awt - does not look like this is a good choice.
Swing which I believe is bundled with regular Java SDK/JRE. - This may be my best
bet.
SWT which seems to compliment Swing in some fashion.
Griffon based on an article here. This framework uses Groovy ( I
have no clue about Groovy, btw) Adobe Air flex. Any open source
frameworks?
What are some of the other issues that I need to keep in mind? Some that I would like your comments on are:
How does the fact that it needs to be deployed on the client complicates things? Since we are using Java, I believe this to be a non issue. I am aware of the usual trade offs between a web based app and a desktop app (e.g. ease of deployment and upgrades etc etc.)
How easy is it to create a one click installer and bundle the app and the environment needed - eg. JRE etc?
The product needs to work on Mac and Windows. Does that complicate things in any way (Again, since it is Java I am assuming there are no gotchas but would like to be forewarned if there are any)
What is the framework or technology that may be good to have on the resume as a skill set?
My deadline is a max of 2 months - would that be enough for a reasonably simple web app given that I need to learn all of these technologies? I am just trying to get a sense here - I know it is most likely impossible to give an accurate answer - just assume I am smart enough and can pick up any unfamiliar tech stack fast enough.
Thank you!
GUI toolkit
Given "Mac and Windows", I'd say that settles my recommendation as "Swing" (perhaps with SwingX1).
I agree with your assessment of AWT. It does not support formatted text in any component out-of-the-box. It also lacks trees, tables (and other components) & people with recent experience using it. Note though, that it is also "bundled with regular Java SDK/JRE" just like Swing, it is just that it is older and less enabled than Swing generally.
If anything complements Swing it would be SwingX. SwingX is built on Swing and provides advanced controls that are not available 'out of the box' in the J2SE.
Swing and SWT are mutually incompatible - use one or the other.
I have no experience with Griffon.
Swing is the most used of the options outlined, so for getting help (ignoring other potentially important factors in the decision), it would be a good choice.
Note 1) Add SwingX if they have any groovy components that present threaded conversations easily, but I suspect a JTextPane would suffice.
Deployment
As far as deployment goes, that is a little more tricky than it seems. Many desktop computers do not come with Java as standard. Those that already have it, might have an old version.
To ensure a JRE of the right minimum version to run the app. is available, use the deployJava.js (mentioned, with links, in the JWS page below).
To provide a 'one click' launch experience for the user, look to Java Web Start.
Cross-platform gotcha's
Unfortunately, though Java is x-plat, there are plenty of things that programmers can do that stuff that up. E.G.
Not accounting for the platform default:
File encoding (file.encoding2)
Line break (line.separator2)
File separator (file.separator2)
Coding fixed size ('absolute layout') apps. that will be shown as different sized apps. on other OS.
...
Note 2. That is showing the property to use for each.
Timetable
Obviously I cannot speak for you, but I can tell you that I would have had no chance of going from 'which technology' to a 'deployable app' within two months.
Hope you're more capable than me! ;)
You said that you wanted a Java solution, but be aware that there are plenty of Gui options in Python, and you already have your web application written in Python.
Groovy is a different programming language than Java, but Groovy runs on the JVM. Do you want a Java solution or a JVM solution? I ask because you mention Griffon.
Assuming you want Java, I think your main options are Swing, SWT, JavaFX 2, and Apache Pivot. Oracle has said that they intend for JavaFX to replace Swing as the GUI platform of choice. That said, JavaFX 2 is in its infancy, and only a preview release is available for Mac right now. The upshot of JavaFX and Apache Pivot is that you could use the same code for your web application as your desktop application.
You can try doing so in small steps:
* As a first step you can create an applications with SWT and embed your application in a browser control.
* Then you should move pages and some controls from the web app to the desktop one by one.
In this way you can get a minimal application in hours :)
P.S. If you want an iOS app with this approach it's worth looking at this open source project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhoneGap
Can i use MeeGo (www.meego.com) to make my own handheld equipment? To distribute mobile or notebook or desktop as embedded equipment, with my custom application on it for multimedia?
Can i use MeeGo with Java/D or C language? Multimedia and cross platform is never easy. Is MeeGo the right choice?
Lots of questions, I'll answer them one at a time.
If your custom hardware runs an ARM or Intel Atom CPU you absolutely can use MeeGo as the OS. The downloads page has images for both platforms, as well as images for netbooks. The only caveat is that most of the source is GPL. If you patch the MeeGo distribution in any way, you might have to release the source code for it (depending on what it is you changed). Custom applications aren't bound by the GPL however so your app can be closed source if you want.
MeeGo is based on gcc-4.5.0. Which means you can use C and C++, and perhaps some Java via gcj. The MeeGo APIs are centered around C and C++ though. If Java is more your thing, the Android Open Source project might be a better choice, but since it's more specialized than MeeGo it might be more difficult.
MeeGo comes with GStreamer 0.10.30 which is the standard C-based Multimedia-framework for Linux. It's a very powerful framework based on streams and sinks. In other words, it's very modular, and in theory, you can easily replace or plug-in to any part of the rendering pipeline.
I'm an experienced PHP/JS developer with a tiny bit of background (read university projects) in Java/C/C++. I'm looking to branch out my skill set and would like some advice on what language would be the best to pick up, along with a UI framework for that language. I have a tiny bit of experience with Qt's C++ implementation.
Let me define what I consider to be "best". I'm looking for something cross-platform (I use a MacBook Pro and a desktop that dual boots Windows/Linux) that is reasonably easy to get into as far as UI goes but will be scalable to larger applications. I'm comfortable writing terminal applications in Java/C/C++/Python/PHP but some of these little things I've written I would be interested in extending with more user friendly/pretty UIs.
At the end of the day, I think this probably boils down to a framework discussion so, let's paraphrase the question as "What cross-platform UI framework is most accessible but also professionally relevant."
Well 3 are recommended:
Swing (Java)
SWT/JFace (Java)
Qt (C++)
Working with these UI toolkits is almost the same: (generally same approach, good UI designers, good communities ... etc) so the language choice should rely on what external libraries are you using and whether or not you want native look and feel for your application (Only Qt and SWT/JFace can give you native look and feel for your application, swing is very bad at it).
I like the Qt, it's easy to learn, easy to use, and is cross-platform and versatile enough to perform very well even on an ARM embedded device running busybox.
Have you considered wxWidgets? It's cross platform and there is multiple language bindings. It has been around for some time and is used in multiple commercial products.
I've been away from Java programming (except some Android dev) and desktop apps but now I want to develop a Java desktop app as a personal project. So I wonder, what's the current blueprint for this kind of app? Is still Swing and JDBC?
Having said that, would also recommend that set of technologies for a simple project? As an analogy, I don't want to read a 800 pages book on J2EE just to do a simple web page, if you know what I mean.
Thanks
Do a little prototyping and choose:
Swing: Most resources, most used, lot of 3rd party free stuff (SwingX etc.), kick ass look and feels, really cross platform, nice IDE support. Swing is going to be improved in next JDK release, so it's still pretty much in game. NetBeans IDE and IntelliJ IDEA are written in Swing.
SWT: Alternative which uses facilities of operating systems on which it is implemented. SWT community is smaller and it doesn't provide that many tools as Swing does. It's a little more tricky to do cross platform, you need to make actual comiplation on all OS you are going to ship your app on. Eclipse IDE is written in SWT.
QT: Cross platform solution with lots of users. It's pretty popular amongst C++ users. On the other hand, I've never seen powerful tools for Java+QT as for Swing or SWT. I don't consider QT as "true Java" solution, but you might have different idea.
Java FX : Since 2007, Sun tries to persuade us to use this declarative approach for building RIA. I've seen lots of tutorials but I never liked Java FX and I am not alone at all. JavaFX tries to be only UI solution, it does NOT replace Swing.
There is probably much more, but this is what I tried. From those, I liked Swing. It's pretty mature now. There are bazillion of tutorials over here. Yes, some things are pretty painful with Swing, but overally I think it's still best desktop choice for Java.
Another intersting thing, if you're into declarative UI, is YAML. Check this pdf book.
As for second part, JDBC is still pretty popular, but you might think of some ORM framework (you can easily google some or looke here on stackoverflow, most popular one is Hibernate).
For the program idea I have, it requires that the software be written in one binary that is executeable by all major desktop platforms, meaning it needs an interpreted language or a language within a JVM. Either is fine with me, but the programming language has to balance power & simplicity (e.g. Python)
I know of wxPython but I have read that it's support on Mac OS X is fairly limited
Java sounds good & it looks good but it seems almost too difficult to program in
Any help?
I used Python with wxPython for quite a while and found it very easy to use. I now use Java with both Swing and SWT.
I prefer Java but that's just a personal preference so you shouldn't let that sway you.
I didn't find the transition from Python to Java that difficult. In terms of GUI, they both have the layout manager paradigm - the managers are different but not so different you'll have trouble switching.
Java has an absolute huge class library to the point where you probably don't need to write your own version of anything, just string together the components. I never really got that deep into Python but it may well be similar. One thing I did notice is that all the really good stuff I used in Python (e.g., s[-4:-1]) could still be done quite easily in Java. Both languages were a step up from C where I had to manage strings with my own libraries.
If you think wxPython is limited on MacOS, you should try Java. I run my Java code on Windows, Linux and other UNIXes without compatibility problems. Sadly, not Mac, so I can't really advise you there.
My advice, pick a smallish project - do it in both Python and Java - see how it runs on all the platforms you're interested in.
Python with PyQt or the eventually-to-be-equivalent-but-gratis PySide seems the way to go -- after all, few languages are easier to program in than Java (which you consider "almost too difficult to program in"), Python is one of those few, Qt arguably the best cross-platform GUI toolkit in any language, and PyQt (now, but GPL or for-$$$) or PySide (eventually, gratis even if you want to close-source your own code) are powerful interfaces between Python and Qt.
You can use any of languages targeting JVM, e.g. Jython (Python impl) and JRuby (Ruby impl).
You can try using Qt bindings for Python, Qt seems to support many of Mac OSX specifics.
Consider Tcl/Tk. I'm not sure how you define "one binary that is executeable [sic] by all major desktop platforms" but Tcl probably meets this as well as java, and likely better than any other scripting language.
Using the tcl packaging technology of starkits you can either a) create a single file that can be run on any platform that has an appropriate runtime engine (and they are available for all major and many minor platforms), or you can package that platform-specific runtime engine and and cross-platform starkit into a single file executable for each platform.
The starkit technology is something other languages should aspire to. What you get is a complete, fully functional virtual file system within a single file. This lets you easily package up sound files, dll/.so files (which must be copied to disk for obvious (?) reasons), images, data, etc along with your executable code.
Tk, the graphical library, is very mature and has really good support on all platforms. Some people think it looks dated but those impressions are usually based on information that is at least 5 years old. Modern Tk looks quite good. For some examples see the tkdocs website. I's not clear whether you're more concerned with eye candy or functionality, but if it's functionality you're interested in then Tk is something to seriously consider.
Most agree that Tcl is an aquired taste but those that use it professionally usually swear by it. I've been doing wxPython programming the last several months and would switch back to tcl/tk in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.
You could use Groovy to work around the Java complexities.
Still you'll need good foundations of Swing.
While the learning curve may be steep, the trade of of not having to completely re-write the whole application again for the next platform will be a good reward.
Bear in mind, that even though it is cross platform, you should consider different platforms still have different idioms ( e.g. Copy/Past in Windows is ctrl+v, ctrl+v while in Mac it is cmd+c, cmd+v )
I work on a program that has to run on Windows, Linux and OS X (and OS X is my development platform), and wxPython is what we use.
If I had a chance to start again, I'd probably go with PyQT (based on advice from friends), but wxPython will get the job done.
I think wxPython is pretty good, though I am not sure what you mean by "support on Mac OS X is fairly limited" but I have been porting a wxPython app (www.mockupscreens.com) to Mac and it wasn't that difficult with few tweaks e.g. some UI elements may not come up as you expected, as wxPython uses native UI elements, which can be an advanatage or disadvantage based on your requirements.
Other good option is PyQT which will give you consistent look on all platforms.
Java seems better for what you want.
Well what about the web application in Javascript?
How about SWT
Cross Platform
Native Look and feel
Huge community
Constantly maintained/upgraded ( IBM backed )
Atleast one mega successful cross platform project
I would suggest going the wxPython route, I know that wxWidgets (which is what wxPython is using) can be made to have great looking Mac apps (look at PgAdmin3 from postgresql). While PgAdmin3 is not done in python, it was done with wxWidgets and looks fine on a mac.
I use three cross-platform tools regularly: Realbasic from Realsoftware which is what Visual Basic v6 would have been if allowed to grow; Revolution from Runrev which is what Hypercard would have been if allowed to survive (and its neat using a scripting language whose syntax is basically English); and finally, Delphi Prism with Mono.
All are quite mature and yet expanding at a great rate. For instance, Revolution is just introducing a web-application feature to its language that is really easy to use.