Java Frameworks War: Spring and Hibernate

Java Frameworks War: Spring and Hibernate - java

My developers are waging a civil war. In one camp, they've embraced Hibernate and Spring. In the other camp, they've denounced frameworks - they're considering Hibernate though.
The question is: Are there any nasty surprises, weaknesses or pit-falls that newbie Hibernate-Spring converts are likely to stumble on?
PS: We've a DAO library that's not very sophisticated. I doubt that it has Hibernate's richness, but it's reaching some sort of maturity (i.e. it's not been changed in the last few projects it's included).

They've denounced frameworks?
That's nuts. If you don't use an off-the-shelf framework, then you create your own. It's still a framework.

I've used Hibernate a number of times in the past. Each time I've run into edge cases where determining the syntax devolved into a scavenger hunt through the documentation, Google, and old versions. It is a powerful tool but poorly documented (last I looked).
As for Spring, just about every job I've interviewed for or looked at in the past few years involved Spring, it's really become the de-facto standard for Java/web. Using it will help your developers be more marketable in the future, and it'll help you as you'll have a large pool of people who'll understand your application.
Writing your own framework is tempting, educational, and fun. Not so great on results.

Hibernate has quirks to be sure but that is because the problem it is trying to solve is complex. Every time someone complains about Hibernate I remind them of all of the boring DAO code that they would have to maintain if they weren't using it.
A few tips:
Hibernate is no substitute for a good database design. Hibernate schemas are OK but you will have to tweak them occasionally
Eventually you are going to have to understand how Hibernate lazy loads classes and how that affects things. Hibernate modifies the Java bytecode and you will need to delve into the depths sooner or later if only to explain why object links are null.
Use annotations if you can.
Take the time to learn the Hibernate performance tuning techniques, it will save you in the long run.

If you have a fairly complex database, Hibernate may not be for you. At work we have a fairly complex database with lots of data, and Hibernate doesn't really work for us. We've started using iBATIS instead. However, I know a lot of development shops who use Hibernate successfully - and it does do a lot of grunt work for you - so it's worth considering.
Spring is a good tool if you know how to use it properly.
I would say that frameworks are definitely a good thing - like others have pointed out, you don't want to reinvent the wheel. Spring contains a lot of modules which will mean you won't have to write so much code. Don't succumb to the "Not Invented Here" syndrome!

Lazy loading is the big gotcha in MVC applications that use Hibernate for their persistence framework. You load the object in the controller and pass it to the JSP view. Some or all of the members of the class are proxied and everything blows up because you Hibernate session was closed when the controller completed.
You will need to read the Open Session in View article to understand the problem and get a solution. If you are using Spring the this blog article describes the Spring solution to the open session in view issue.

This is one thing (I could remember) that I fell into when I was in my Hibernate days.
When you delete (several) child objects from a collection (in a parent entity) and then add new entities to the same collection in one transaction without flushing in the middle, Hibernate will do "insert" before "delete". If the child table has a unique constraint in one of its columns, and you are expecting that you would not violate it since you have already deleted some data before (just like I was), then get ready to be frustrated.
Hibernate forum suggests:
It was a DB design flaw, redesign;
flush (or commit if you will) in between the deletes and inserts;
I couldn't do both, and end up tweaking the Hibernate source and recompiling. It was only 1 line of code. But the effort to find that one line was equal to approximately 27 cups of coffee and 3 sleepless nights.
This is just one example of problems and quirks you might end up when using Hibernate with no real expert on your team (expert: someone with adequate knowledge about the philosophy and internal working of Hibernate). Your problem, solution, litre of coffee, and sleepless night count may vary. But you get the idea.

I haven't worked much with Java but I did work in large groups of Java developers. The impression I've got was that Spring is OK. But everybody was upset at Hibernate. Half the team if asked "If you could change one thing, what would you change?" and they'd say "Get rid of Hibernate.". When I started to learn Hibernate it struck me at amazingly complex, but I didn't learn enough (thankfully I've moved along) to know if the complexity was justified or not (maybe it was require to solve some complex problems).
The team got rid of Spring in favor of Guice, but that was more like a political change, at least from my point of view and other developers I've talked to.

I have always found Hibernate to be a bit complex and hard to learn. But as JPA (Java Persistence API) and EJB (Enterprise Java Beans) 3.0 has existed for a while things have gotten a lot easier, I much prefer annotating my classes to create mappings via JavaDoc or XML. Check out the support in Hibernate. The added bonus is that it is possible (but not effortless) to change the database framework later on if needed. I have used OpenJPA with great results.
Lately I have been using JCR (Java Content Repository) more and more. I love the way that my modules can share a single data storage and that I can let the structure and properties evolve. I find it a lot easier working with nodes and properties rather that mapping my objects to a database. A good implementation is Jackrabbit.
As for Spring, it has a lot of features I like, but the amount of XML needed to configure means I will never use it. Instead I utilize Guice and absolutely love it.
To roundup, I would show your doubting developers how Hibernate will make their life easier. As for Spring I would seriously check if Guice is a viable alternative and then try to show how Spring/Guice makes development better and easier.

I've done a lot of Spring/Hibernate development. Over time the way people used both in combination has changed a bit. The original HibernateTemplate approach has proved to be difficult to debug since it swallows and wraps otherwise useful exceptions; talk to the Hiberante API directly!
Please keep looking at the generated SQL (configure your development logging to show SQL). Having an abstraction layer to the database doesn't mean you don't have to think in SQL anymore; you won't get good performance if you otherwise.
Consider the project. I've choosen iBatis over Hibernate on several occasions where we had stringent performance requirements, complex legacy schemas or good DBa's capable of writing excellent SQL.

As for Hibernate: a very good tool for application which deals with a rapidly changing database schema, a large amount of tables, do lots of simple CRUD operations. Reports with complex queries involved are rather less well handled. But in these case I prefer mixing in JDBC or native queries. So, for a short answer: I do think time spent learning Hibernate is a good investment (they say it is compliant with EJB3.0 and JPA standards, also, but that didn't come into the equation when I evaluated it for my personal use).
As for Spring... see The Bile Blog :)
Remember: frameworks are not silver bullets, but you should not reinvent the wheel either.

I find it really helps to use well-known frameworks such as Hibernate because it fits your code into a specific mold, or a way of thinking. Meaning, since you're using Hibernate, you write code a certain way, and most if not all developers who know Hibernate will be able to follow your line of thinking quite easily.
There's a downside to this, of course. Before you become a hot shot Hibernate developer, you're going to find that you're trying to fit a square into a circular hole. You KNOW what you want to do, and how you were supposed to do it before Hibernate came into the picture, but finding the Hibernate way of doing it may take... quite a bit of time.
Still, for companies that frequently hire consultants (who need to understand a lot of source code in a short amount of time) or where the developers sign on and quit frequently, or where you just don't want to bet that your key developers will stay forever and never change jobs -- Hibernate and other standard frameworks are a pretty good idea I think.
/Ace

Spring and Hibernate are frameworks that are tricky to master. It may not be a good idea to use them in projects with tight deadlines while you're still trying to figure out the frameworks.
The benefits of the frameworks is basically to try to provide a platform to allow for consistent codes to be products. From experience, you'd be well advised to have developers experienced with the frameworks setting in place best practices.
Depending on the design of your application and/or database, there are also quirks that you'll need to circumvent to ensure that the frameworks do not hinder performance.

In my opinion, the biggest advantage of Spring is that it encourages and enables better development practices, in particular loose coupling, testing, and more interfaces. Hibernate without Spring can be really painful, but the two together are very useful.
Retrofitting an existing project to any framework is going to be painful, but the refactoring process often has serious benefits for long-term maintainability.

I have to agree with many posts on this one. I've used both, extensively, in a variety of settings. If I could undo a design decision it would be to have used Hibernate. We actually budgeted a release in one of our products to swap Hibernate for iBatis and Spring-JDBC for a best-of-all-worlds approach. I can have a new developer get up to speed using Spring-JDBC, Spring-MVC, Spring-Ioc, and iBatis faster than if I just tasked them with Hibernate.
Hibernate is just too complicated for this KISS developer. And heaven help you with hibernate if your DBA sees the generated SQL the database sees and sends you back with optimized versions.

The top answer mentions that Hibernate is poorly documented. I agree that the online reference manual could be more complete. However, a book written by Hibernate's authors, 'Java persistence with Hibernate' is a must-read for every Hibernate user and very complete.

#slim - I am with you again this morning.
It sounds like a classic case of Not Invented Here Syndrome. If they aren't keen on spring, they should consider other options rather than rolling their own framework (whether they acknowledge doing it or not). Guice comes to mind as an possibility. Also picocontainer. There are others out there, depending on what you need.

Spring and Hibernate definitely make life easier.
Getting started with them might be a little time-consuming at the beginning, but you'll certainly benefit from it later. Now the XML is being replaced by annotations, you don't need to type hundreds of lines of XML either.
You may want to consider AppFuse to reduce your learning-curve: generate an application, study and adapt it, and off you go.

Frameworks are not evil. even the Java SDK is a framework.
What they probably fight is framework proliferation. You shouldn't bring a framework to a project just for the kick of it, it should bring consistent value in a reasonable time. Every framework requires a learning curve, but should reward you with increased productivity and features later on.
If you struggle with code that is hard to debug because of inconsistent database usage, complicated cache mechanisms, or a myriad of other reasons. Hibernate will add great value.
apart from the learning curve (which took about 1 month of practical work for me) there weren't any pitfalls, provided you have someone around to explain the basics for you.

Related

Is ORM framework good to use in RESTFul Web service in Java

This question is for software architects,
I have a confusion about to use ORM framework in restful web service, is it good practice?
I'm actually Java Developer working from since 5 years on Java, now doing some software architect stuff, so this confusion is raised, should I use it or not?
please give me pros and cons about it from your experience
Thanks

If your service is calling down to a SQL DB then it is perfectly reasonable to have an ORM layer.
PRO: simplified coding for simple problem spaces
CON: sub-optimal performance for complex SQL problem spaces

Agree with Lee.
It is a totally valid approach using an ORM framework together with Rest (or SOAP).
We use this scenario in a rather large project in conjunction with a service-oriented architecture.
Regarding pros and cons of an ORM framework from my experience:
while ORM tries to shield the developers from the complexities of SQL, it makes things to easy sometimes, in the way that it lures developers into neglecting things like transaction boundaries and database isolation levels
if you have developers which already have experience with SQL, you may consider using myBatis
using JPA/ORM will require some effort to master, but it is quite worth reading a book or taking a course, as using JPA in a suboptimal way will bring down database performance or result in excessive loading of object trees
In the current project we made very good experience with a two day training which will provide you with some tricks and example code how to handle the most common problems and avoid pitfalls.

Ripping out Hibernate/Mysql for MongoDB or Couch for a Java/Spring/Tomcat web application

I have an application that is undergoing massive rework, and I've been exploring different options - chug along 'as is', redo the project in a different framework or platform, etc.
When I really think about it, here are 3 major things I really dislike about java:
Server start/stops when modifying controllers or other classes. Dynamic languages are a huge win over Java here.
Hibernate, Lazyloading exceptions (especially those that occur in asynchronous service calls or during Jackson JSON marshalling) and ORM bloat in general. Hibernate, all by itself, is responsible for slow integration start up times and insanely slow application start up times.
Java stupidity - inconsistent class-loading problems when running your app inside of your IDE compared to Tomcat. Granted once you iron out these issues, you most likely won't see them again. Even still, most of these are actually caused by Hibernate since it insists on a specific Antlr version and so on.
After thinking about the problem... I could solve or at least improve the situation in all 3 of these areas if I just got rid of Hibernate.
Have any of you reworked a 50+ entity java application to use mongo or couch or similar database? What was the experience like? Do you recommend it? How long did it take you assuming you have some pretty great unit/integration tests? Does the idea sound better than it really is?
My application would actually benefit in many areas if I could store documents. It would actually open up some very cool and interesting features for this application. However, I do like being able to create dynamic queries for complex searches... and I'm told that Couch can't do those.
I'm really green when it comes to NoSQL databases, so any advice on migrating (or not migrating) a big java/spring project would be really helpful. Also, if this is a good idea, what books would you recommend I pick up to get me up to speed and really make use of them for this application in the best way possible?
Thanks

In any way, your rant doesn't just cover problems with the previously made (legacy) decision for Hibernate but also with your development as a programmer in general.
This is how I would do it, should a similar project be dropped in my lap and in dire need of refactoring or improvement.
It depends on the stage in your software's lifetime and the time pressure involved if you should make big changes or stick with smaller ones. Nevertheless, migrating in increments seems to be your best option in the long term.
Keeping the application written in Java for the short term seems wise, a major rewrite in another language will definitely break acceptance and integration tests.
Like suggested by Joseph, make the step from Hibernate to JPA. It shouldn't cost too much time. And from there you can switch the back-end to some other way of storage. Work towards a way of seperating concerns. Pick whatever concept seems best, some prefer MVC while others might opt for CQRS and still others adore another style of segmentation/seperation.
Since the JVM supports many languages, you can always switch to any of those or at least partially implement functionality in more dynamic languages. This will solve part of the problem where you keep bumping into the "stupidity" of Java, while still retaining the excellent optimizations of current JVMs at runtime.
In addition, you might want to set up automatic integration tests... since the application will hopefully never be run from your IDE, these tests will give you honest results.
Side note: I never trust my IDE to get dependencies right if the IDE has capabilities to inject its own libraries into my build or runtime path.
So to recap in short: small steps; lose Hibernate and go more abstract to JPA; if Java becomes stupid, then gradually switch to a clever language. Your primary concern should be to restructure the code base without losing functionality, keeping in mind to have an open design which will make adding interesting and cool features easier later on.

Well, much depends on things like "what exactly are the pain points with Hibernate?" (I know, you gave three examples...)
But those aren't core issues over the long haul. What you're running into is the nature of a compiled language vs. a dynamic one; at runtime, it works out better for you (as Java is faster and more scalable than the dynamic languages, based on my not-quite-exhaustive tests), but at development time, it's less amenable to just hacking crap together and hoping it works.
NoSQL isn't going to fix things, although document stores could, but there's a migration step you're going to have to go through.
Important: I work for a vendor in this space, which explains my experience in the area, as well as the bias in the next paragraph:
You're focusing on open source projects, I suppose, although what I would suggest is using a commercial product: GigaSpaces (http://gigaspaces.com). There's a community edition, that would allow you to migrate JPA-based java objects to a document model (via the SpaceDynamicProperties annotation); you could use JPA for the code you've written and slowly migrate to a fully document-oriented model at your convenience, plus complex queries aren't an issue.

All of those points are usually causing problems due to incompetence, rather than hibernate or java being problematic:
apart from structural modifications (adding fields or methods), all changes in the java code are hot-swapped in debug mode, so that you can save & test (without any redeploy).
the LazyInitializationException is a problem for hibernate-beginners only. There are many and clear solutions to it, and you'll find them with a simple google or SO search. And you can always set your collections to fetch=FetchType.EAGER. Or you can use Hibernate.initialize(..) to initialize lazy collections.
It is entirely normal for a library to require a specific version of another library (the opposite would be suspicious and wrong). If you keep your classpath clean (for example by using maven or ivy), you won't have any classloading issues. I have never had.
Now, I will provide an alternative. spring-data is a new portfolio project by springsource, that allows you to use your entities for a bunch of NoSQL stores.

Comparison between Hibernate and Cayenne

Someone please help me in choosing whether to use Hibernate or Cayenne?
Which is more suitable to handle large databases?

I used both, but if I was in charge (and not my boss :) ) I would prefer Cayenne.
Cayenne has a very nice CayenneModeler, so you don't have to write any mapping code - just click your way an entire project in a few minutes.
If you have performance sensitive areas in you project, Cayenne has something called SQLTemplate - a very very efficient solution.
And last but not least, as a newbie or as a simple user, you get very fast very good solutions to your questions - as opposed to the Hibernate forums - just look how many questions are unanswered there.

Bill Dudney -
Overall in my limited expierence
Cayenne is a robust and fun framework
to develop with. There are lots of
cool features and if you know
Hibernate its a small leap to grok
Cayenne. Cayenne seems to have a
vibrant community of users and the
list was very friendly and answered my
simpleton questions quickly and
without trying to make me feel stupid.
Cayenne seems to be a bit less mature
than Hibernate in a few areas, for
example, the distributed caching is
new in version 1.1. In general though
Cayenne is a great framework and I
would definitely recommend that you
take a look at it when you start your
next project that requires an ORM
framework.

This discussion on relative strengths or Hibernate vs. Toplink offers few important point an which features to look when evaluating:
http://programming.itags.org/development-tools/120839/

Making life better by not using Java web frameworks? [closed]

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Closed 11 years ago.
I'm so tired of having to learn yet another Java web framework every other day.
JSP, Struts, Wicket, JSF, JBoss Seam, Spring MVC to name just a few - all this countless frameworks out there try to address the same issues. However, none of them really solves the fundamental problems - that's why there are still coming up more and more new ones all the time.
Most do look very bright and shiny on the first impression because they simplify doing simple things.
But as soon as it comes to the implementation of a real world use case one is running into problems.
Often the frameworks don't provide any help but are hindering one and limiting the options by forcing things to be implemented according to the frameworks own logic and environment.
In short, I see the following disadvantages when using a framework:
There mostly is a steep learning curve and you first need to understand sometimes quite academic concepts and know meaning and location of a bunch of configuration files before you can get started.
The documentation usually is more or less awful, either missing a public accessible online reference, is helpless outdated, confuses different incompatible versions or all of this together and often doesn't provide any helpful examples.
The framework consist of zillions of classes which makes it practically impossible to understand the intended use only by browsing the sources.
Therefore you need to buy some "XYZ in action for dummies in 21 days" kind of books which have a bad user interface because they are missing a full text search and are heavy to carry around.
To really use one of this frameworks you need to learn by heart how things can be done the way the framework requires it by remembering the adequate classes and method names until your head is full of stupid and useless information you can't use for anything else.
There is a big overhead, slowing down your applications performance and making your brain feeling numb when try to understand what really is going on.
In the real world there is usually no time to get well familiar with something new because of the pressure of being productive. As a consequence of this learning by doing approach one always looks only for the fastest way to get the next task done rather than really understanding the new tool and it's possibilities.
The argument that following a standard would allow people who are new to a project to quickly get started is not valid in my view because every project uses a different framework even within the same company (at least in my case).
It seems to me that the following quote from Albert Einstein fits here very well:
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”
Back in my good old PHP coding days when coding still was fun and productive, I used to write my own frameworks for most things and just copy-pasted and adopted them from one project to the next.
This approach paid out very well, resulting in fast development, no overhead at all and a framework which actually was mightier than most Java frameworks out there but with only a few hundred lines of code in a single file plus some simple mod_rewrite rules.
This certainly wasn't solving all problems of web development, but it was simple, fast and straight to the point.
While perfectly adjusted to the requirements of the current project, it also was easy expandable and had a very high performance due to zero overhead.
So why all that hassle with using this frameworks, why not throwing them all away and going back to the roots?
What should I say to my boss when we're starting tomorrow the next project with a new framework again?
Or are there maybe frameworks which really make a difference?
Or some hidden advantages I have ignored?

Back in my good old PHP coding days
when coding still was fun and
productive, I used to write my own
frameworks for most things and just
copy-pasted and adopted them from one
project to the next. This approach
paid out very well, resulting in fast
development, no overhead at all and a
framework which actually was mightier
than most Java frameworks out there
Forgive me for believing that not one second.
but with only a few hundred lines of
code in a single file plus some simple
mod_rewrite rules. This certainly
wasn't solving all problems of web
development, but it was simple, fast
and straight to the point.
So basically you developed your own framework over the course of months or years, tailored to your own needs, and could work very fast with it because you knew it intimately.
And yet you can't understand why others do the same and then try to turn the result into something useable by everyone?
Where's this great framework you developed? If it's so powerful and easy to use, where are the dedicated communities, thousands of users and hundreds of sites developed with it?
every project uses a different
framework even within the same company
(at least in my case)
Well, that's your problem right there. Why would you throw away the expertise gained with each framework after each project?
The idea is to choose one framework and stick with it over multiple projects so that you get proficient in it. You have to invest some time to learn the framework, and then it saves you time by allowing you to work on a higher level.

The problem with coming up with your own framework is that you will make all of the same mistakes that all of the established frameworks have already stumbled on and addressed. This is true particularly when it comes to security.
Just ask Jeff and the guys about what they had to consider when implementing the WMD in stack overflow. I'd rather use what they have produced in a project rather than implement it from scratch. That is just one example.

Here is a quote from Kev from the thread What’s your most controversial programming opinion? which fit's in here really well:
I think that the whole "Enterprise" frameworks thing is smoke and mirrors. J2EE, .NET, the majority of the Apache frameworks and most abstractions to manage such things create far more complexity than they solve.
Take any regular Java or .NET OMR, or any supposedly modern MVC framework for either which does "magic" to solve tedious, simple tasks. You end up writing huge amounts of ugly XML boilerplate that is difficult to validate and write quickly. You have massive APIs where half of those are just to integrate the work of the other APIs, interfaces that are impossible to recycle, and abstract classes that are needed only to overcome the inflexibility of Java and C#. We simply don't need most of that.
How about all the different application servers with their own darned descriptor syntax, the overly complex database and groupware products?
The point of this is not that complexity==bad, it's that unnecessary complexity==bad. I've worked in massive enterprise installations where some of it was necessary, but even in most cases a few home-grown scripts and a simple web frontend is all that's needed to solve most use cases.
I'd try to replace all of these enterprisey apps with simple web frameworks, open source DBs, and trivial programming constructs.

The problem is of course not just with Java frameworks. I've lost count of the number of C++ MFC projects I've seen floundering around trying to shoe-horn their requirements into the Document/View model (which really only workks for text and graphic editors - database applications are particularly difficult to shoehorn).
The secret of succesful framework use is to change your application to match the framework, not the other way around. If you can't do that, don't even think of using the framework - it will end up being more work than if you had written the app from scratch with the help of some good, reliable and well-documented utility libraries.

So are you saying we should deal in sockets and HTTP every time we want to build a web application!
The servlet container itself can be considered a framework, since it handles all these messy details, and leaves you to write much simpler Servlets/Filters/Listeners (ie: 'extensions' of the framework specific to your application).
All any framework tries to do is separate mundane, repeatable, error-prone, legwork code from the fun application-specific code.
However, for a small application, you can get away with simply having a Model 2 MVC approach which uses only JSPs and Servlets.
Example:
class MyController extends HttpServlet {
public void doGet(HttpServletRequest request, HttpServletResponse response) throws ... {
MyBean model = // do something
request.setAttribute("model", model);
request.getRequestDispatcher("/view.jsp").forward(request, response);
}
}
Then as your app becomes more sophisticated, you could look at using Spring MVC to provide looser coupling (and hence more flexible) of controllers, view resolvers etc..

I share your pain when confronted with yet another framework that doesn't do the trick.
Having survived ten years of jsp, struts, EJB, EJB2, struts2, jsf and now more recently all the new web services framworks, the xslt horrors and wsdl-first nightmares, I am definitely fed up.
There is a number of problems with frameworks. They leak so you have to learn more -not less, inhouse frameworks have huge costs, using external frameworks costs too (but much less), as they seldom deliver, and then you end up writing enourmus chunks of xml-configuration and spend days correcting case and spelling errors that you had seen immediately in your favorite content helping code editor.
Maybe the answer is to find less pompous toolkits that tries to solve a problem but not redefine the world, but that is hard too as the fundamental application model (html over http) is awkward - at best.
Add the fact that there seems to be a lot of complicators around, people that seems to be obsessed of trading boring simple problems to complex (but hard) interresting problems ( maybe a variant of Eric Sink’s Axiom of Software Development mentioned above.)
Add the hubris of developers that knows it all and do not hesitate to write a new framework to solve all the hard problems for you, Only that they can't, leaving 10% left, only much harder to fix now.
I have no .NET experience, but the .NET world seems to be less crowded with theorists and complicators, and maybe the lingering stink of VB is scaring them off, but everytime I hear someone telling me that they have spent 1500 hours on their maven config (hello?), I am seriously considering deleting "java" from my resume.
...what was the question again? Are there any frameworks that make a difference?
EDIT - added Stripes and QueryDSL.
I would try Stripes or GWT with QueryDSL + Hibernate or OpenJPA (with annotations) just for the fact that you actually develop in Java, and try to limit the use of wsdl-first web-services, xml-centric frameworks, EJB and ESBs (not the beer) as much as possible.

I once had to work on a project trying to implement it in JSF. It was a nightmare.
Most of the working time was spent to just making things compile. The fact that no less than half of what was compiled didn't work was another story. Almost no tutorials. Documentation is basically an automated source code export with no human comments. How can one be expected to work like this?
Of several frameworks we'd seen only Sun's was able to create a new project that is compilable at all! The other could only produce bunch of stuff it took many days to ring to a compilable state.
The web was almost silent. To any search there we no more than 20 pages of search results, with useful first 1-3. In that relevant what was found, a half of people was crying for help, the other half declared they had cried for help, noone came, they lost time and interest and dropped that technology.
So we spent times and only made something simple that could have been done in a few weeks with ASP.NET for example.
Then we looked at alternative JSF frameworks. To our surprise we found them all quite incompatible.
With not surprise at all, we joined the ranks of those who dropped JSF as well.

Consider the counter point. I am working at a shop right now that doesn't use any frameworks beyond the JSP standard. Everyone has a different way of doing things and we are very lax about concepts like de-coupling and security concerns like validation.
While I don't think use of frameworks automatically makes you a better coder, I do think by using a standard design pattern implemented by most frameworks and by having easy access to utility functions like validation, I think the chances are you are going to be forced to code up to a certain standard.
In web application design you aren't inventing the wheel every time, so you either end up rolling your own solution to common tasks, or using a framework. I make the assumption that by using a commonly used framework rather then roll your own, you are going to get underlying code that is well tested and flexible.
There is nothing wrong with rolling your own solution as an academic pursuit but I accept that there are people out there putting a lot more time into a robust solution then I may be able to spend. Take log4j for example, pretty easy to roll your logger, but log4j is well tested and maintained and they have taken the time to improve on flexibility and performance to a degree that most roll your own loggers can't touch. The end result is a framework that is robust but also simple enough to use in even the most basic applications.

What worked for me is: you shouldn't just learn any web framework you hear about, take a look at it, see if it makes you code comfortably, ask around stackoverflow or forums to see its advantages and disadvantages, then learn it and learn it good and just stick with it until you feel its broken or plain outdated. Any of the webframeworks you wrote about is good by itself and a fun to work with if you "REALLY" know what it does. if you don't you are just wandering in a desert with no compass! I've also found the 21 days book is a sure way for you NOT to master a framework or a technology. Docs is surely something to consider while adopting a f/w it also helps if you look around the code yourself (actually this is what helps me the best when I faced with some behavior that I find wierd.
1-So why all that hassle with using this frameworks, why not throwing them all away and going back to the roots?
if you go back to the roots you rewrite code that does the same thing again and again + most of these f/ws being open source means they are probably better off with maintenance than you would do alone to your own f/w.
2-What should I say to my boss when we're starting tomorrow the next project with a new framework again?
this is my first time working with this f/w I don't see why should we use this f/w I already know X and I am really good at it. bare in mind the cost of me learning this f/w, the cost of rework that has to be done due to my ignorance of such a f/w. I think we are better off using X, if this is a specific requirement we should fight for it and only do it if we really have to stating the previous notes.
Or are there maybe frameworks which really make a difference?
only those who address the way you think not the way you write code (think struts at its golden age enforcing the MVC pattern).
Or some hidden advantages I have ignored?
can't think of any tbh.

You have the same problem in PHP: more frameworks than you have fingers to count them on, each being the best and greatest (although you have some hints: pure PHP5 design vs. PHP4 compatibility, Rails philosophy (inflexible folder hierarchy, auto-generated code) vs. library approach...) and you spend more time searching and exploring the possibilities than writing your code!
But in PHP it allows to pre-solve common problems, like I18N support, integration of plugins, management of sessions and authentication, database abstraction, templates, Ajax support, etc. Avoiding to re-invent the wheel on each project, and to fall in common traps for newbies.
Of course, there are some hints for Java frameworks too: big or small? well documented or not? widely used or confidential? for XML fans or not? Etc.
I suppose most frameworks aim at large projects, where learning time isn't a big problem, scalability and ease of deployment are important, etc. They are probably overkill for small projects.
There is also a trend in such frameworks to aim at doing a consistent set of loosely coupled libraries rather a monolithic framework. That's the case, in the PHP world, for the Zend framework (some even deny the usage of word 'framework'...).
So it solves the issue of "resolving common problems" without getting in the way.

So you think it's better if we all invent the wheel in every project?
You might see an excess of frameworks as a problem, and it does make it harder to choose your own set. But on the other hand, you don't have to try each one; and even if you do, you'll end up preferring some of them. You will have a favorite framework for ORM, another for web development, IoC, etc.
It does help to read up on some forums to learn which are the most popular ones; they must be popular for a reason, and even if it's not the right reason (like being technically superior, maybe it's popular just among managers because of the buzzword overload or whatever), knowledge of said framework will be helpful because you will be able to participate in several projects that use it.
Plus, using a framework instead of writing your own will save you a lot of problems. Bugs are not always found and solved by the authors; that's often done by users of the framework. You said you ended up with your own private framework in PHP; I bet it wasn't bug-free, but maybe you didn't know it since you were the only user and the only coder.

However I disagree on some points that you have mentioned but I agree with you regarding the boring work.
Yes all web applications are about pages displaying forms, collecting data, making validation, sending the data for storage in Database, and filtering the stored data by search forms and displaying the result in tables and selecting one or more records for manipulation (CRUD, or business actions that all about changing status in database).
however I'm working for just 4 years plus of course my 4 years academic study.
I feel this type of development is boring as you are not inventing algorithms, off course you got happy when you discover new framework and will be happier if you integrated one of the AI engines into your application, but at the end I feel that this work is dummy works, or lets say machine work, so why we don't automate all of this stuff.
yes another framework ;)
MDA Model Driven Architecture, in brief is about transforming from PIM (Platform Independent Model) to PSM (Platform Specific Model), i.e for example from UML to Code.
And this may solves your problem of learning curve and technology changes as you will only need to be good at modeling, as there are some frameworks that implements the MDA specs such as AndroMDA as it have cartridges that take the Class Diagrams, Use cases, Sequence Diagrams, and Activity Diagrams and generate Database creation script, POJOs, hibernate mapping, Spring/EJB, JSF/Struts, .NET code.
Off course such frameworks will not generate 100% of the code but will generate a big percent, and off course you will ask whither this framework will solve complex and tricky scenarios of requirements? today I will say no, tomorrow yes.
so why you and I don't invest in the development of this great framework.

Have you found success with a Spring and Hibernate Web Application

I am working on medium sized web application 4-5 tabs, user login for about 100k users. We are completing redesigning the application from scratch and using spring and hibernate, connected to MySQL.
Did you experience major issues and what where did Spring benefit your application.

No major issues. Spring was particularly of benefit for:
Making all the configuration plumbing consistent and straightforward
Dependency Injection to support better factoring of code
Declarative "Open Session In View" functionality for Hibernate
Declarative Transaction Demarcation
The Acegi (now Spring Security) project made it easy to integrate a custom security model
The Spring data access support removes the need for a lot of boilerplate from any JDBC access - maybe not such a boost for Hibernate usage, but we had a mix of both. It also allows you to use JDBC & Hibernate together fairly seamlessly

In addition to what has been said so far, I would focus on newer style annotations for both Spring (e.g. #Controller) and Hibernate (e.g. #Entity). It will further reduce your codebase leaving you with less code to maintain. On the downside, there is a pretty significant learning curve, but ultimately the lesson I learn time and again is that the benefits of Spring + Hibernate far outweigh the (learning curve) costs. You simply have to write a lot less code letting you focus on the business.

+1 Spring+hibernate......
100k users is not mid-size....that is huge.
With spring, you can force coder to code to interfaces and this increase testability. This is the benefit i don't hear people talk a lot about.
take a look memcached to cached data memcached.....

techincally speaking I have, I've deployed commercial applications with numbers from the thousands to a few hundreds of thousands using spring, hibernate and both.
From the management perspective in one case, I had a team that were good technologists, so they managed to rewrite an app with spring and hibernate but... they went crazy with the interfaces (each new object to the model needed 16 interfaces), abused the AOP so transactions and logging were almost impossible to follow and stack traces were meaningless, used tools to map the hibernate files without fully understanding what was being done (in some cases joining 4 tables for what could've been a simple entity, and a variety of issues that made the resulting application much harder to enhance, debug, fix, even setup the developer's environment....)
my 2c

As Julien Chastang said, you need to factor in the learning curve in your estimations if this is your first project. We failed to do that on our first try and ended up having to adjust a lot of our planning because several aspects of Hibernate were "hard" (eg. took some time) to figure out.
One specific piece of advice I can give based on an issue we came across is: if you need to write complex SQL, and you don't want to spend the time figuring out how to get such queries working within HQL or other offerings within Hibernate, get it working first in vanilla SQL and then go back later and patch it back into Hibernate.

Obviously there are a million ways to build an application like this, both in the java frameworks world and with things like Rails or Django.
A big selling point for me is that both spring and hibernate have become defacto standards in the java world, so they definitely qualify as "things you ought to know" ( I get asked on every job interview). Spring more so than Hibernate.
Getting the value of spring took a few spring-enabled apps before it made sense for me. It enforces independant code modules and a certain style of component design that facilitates testing. I'd suggest you just go with it and get the sense of the value of it from use.
I have mixed feelings about Hibernate, though it's important to use some kind of db layer, so you may as well.
Also see this question.

There are some situations with Hibernate where creating a particular object to relational mapping, or writing a particular HQL query, is very difficult. However, you're going to run into 1 thing like that out of 10, and the more normalized your database the better off you will be. It's worth it.
Any new Java web project should use Spring MVC (2.5+ with Annotations) and Hibernate.

There is a large understanding overhead to hibernate and spring. I'd only suggest it if you have plenty of time or an experienced java/spring/hibernate developer to call on. With a spring project once you get it going you can basically ignore the spring parts of it and concentrate on page and logic design. Hibernate is not that difficult. HQL is a harder ask. Most of my time is spent at the bean and JSF level. Comparing that layer of my project to some mates who are messing about in JSP, I'm glad to be in the ease of JSF. I easily swapped to Oracle from the initial implementation in MySQL, so that proves that Hibernate handles abstraction nicely.

in addition to what has been said so far, i strongly suggest the book: Spring Recipes - Problem Solution Approach (Amazon), in combination with the very good online documentation you should be ready to conquer the world ;-)

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Java is a programming language and computing platform first released by Sun Microsystems in 1995.