This is more a question of pros/cons between PHP and JAVA.
Iv been doing research, and iv narrowed it down to those two.
And in consideration, id like to go into mobile app dev...So thats +1 for Java.
Time taken to learn the language is not an issue...Just would like to know which is the most effective between the two languages mentioned above.
And on a slight note. Can Javascript work with Java? And what is the real advantage of that?
All answers are appreciated, thanks in advance.
I'm sorry, but PHP and Java are not the only choices. Ruby on Rails and Python's Django framework are both excellent tools for web development. While I haven't used it, Groovy's Grails framework is also very highly reviewed (largely by ex Java programmers). In certain (admittedly obscure) circumstances it's even advisable to do something off the wall like write a CGI program in C. It all depends on what you're trying to do.
Mobile app dev shouldn't influence your choice here, because no matter what web framework you're working with a mobile app is a whole new ball of wax.
So, here's the deal: asking people to compare PHP and Java really won't get you any meaningful answers -- you don't have the background necessary to understand what we'll say. You really need to figure out what you're trying to do before you choose your tool. It's like saying "I'm thinking about building a house, should I use a screwdriver or a hammer?" Here is what I would advise:
Go learn to program. Pretty much any language will do, but I'd suggest something nice like Python or Ruby. Spend a few months getting comfortable with programming first.
Pick a project. Make it something simple. When you know what your project is, pick a tool to use to complete your project. This may involve asking another SO question.
Rinse and repeat. Complete many projects. Once you've finished 5 or 10 web projects you'll be in a position to compare different tools. The more tools you use, the better. I'd suggest you do one in Ruby on Rails, one in PHP, one in Django (a python framework), and maybe even one in Java with JSP.
Once you've got that base of experience come back and ask this question again. You'll actually be equipped to understand the answers. Of course, once you've got that experience you won't need to ask the question because you'll already know the answer.
The one you know.
Some feedback:
Mobile app dev is not necessarily just web development.
Javascript is the language of choice on the web browser and works with PHP, Java, etc. on the server.
In general, one language is not more effective than another.
Seriously, judging by your post, I would advise you to start learning PHP and Javascript.
You already have a web browser so you can start writing javascript now.
As for PHP just install XAMPP from http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html and after a double click you'll be ready for web development.
After learning what its all about you'll be able to then check out Java and see if it is more effective in what you are trying to do.
Your question really indicate you need to learn alot about web development and programming in general, so I could answer your question but.. I'd recomend you go read up a little.
And in consideration, id like to go
into mobile app dev...So thats +1 for
Java.
How is that +1 for Java? We're talking about server-side languages.. you're not running your server off a phone are you? Sure, you can use Java to build apps in addition to running your website, but that's a different story.
Time taken to learn the language is
not an issue...Just would like to know
which is the most profitable at the
end of all the training.
Neither language will make your site more profitable, but you may be in higher demand with different companies depending on what you know.
And on a slight note. Can Javascript
work with Java? And what is the real
advantage of that?
Well... yes, but that's almost a nonsensical question. You use Java or PHP to produce the HTML that gets sent to the client, and then your JavaScript manipulates that. It's completely unrelated to what language you use server-side.
#comment: I can't really say which is more worth learning. I suppose Java is more versatile in that it has more applications outside the web. PHP is supported by more web-servers though (AFAIK), so you won't have trouble if you need to work on a different server.
I can't fairly recommend one over the other though. I've only used PHP for web, and Java for non-web. I like PHP because it's easy to pickup, easy to use, and all sorts of stuff is built into the language without any includes or anything. Has a big community, so there's lots of scripts you can download. One might argue that it's also a mess of a language, but as long as you aren't all uppity about that sort of thing, it's not really a problem. Java OTH... I don't know. I'm not a Java keener, that's all I'll say :)
Most of the answers here should be able to direct you towards your answer though I would just like to say if you are going to learn a programming language to make Web Apps learn Java, not because this will be the best tool for the job, each job is different, but knowing a full fledged language you will be able to quickly adapt to other languages.
You don't learn a language, you learn the concepts behind programming, then apply them to different languages.
I think you need to outline the context of your question. For example, if you are looking to get a job in IT, then the language that is most asked for in job ads is the one you want. If on the other hand, you have an application in mind that you would like to write, then you need to tell people (without giving away the details) what type of application it is so that they can tell you the most suitable languages/APIs to for that area.
But remember this - there is no such thing as a super programming language that is the best for everything. Each language is suitable for a range of tasks in a range of contexts, and is usually awful for everything else. Without the context of where the language will be used, no-one can tell you which is better.
Stop trying to kill two birds with one stone. There are different tools for different tasks. You can write mobile apps with Java but you can't write web apps with it. You'll have to use a server-side programming language such as PHP, Ruby on Rails, Django (Python), etc.
Related
I am new to programming and I was reading up on "web development," and "web stacks." I've Googled this question and there were no hits, so I've decided to come here and ask. Here are my questions:
Is it possible to replace a language in a web stack? For example, I wanted to use LAMP, but I decided to use Java as the language instead of PHP.
If I can't replace a language, is it possible to add another language in also? For example, I used LAMP, and added Java.
Please respond to your best abilities and thank you for your help!
A Web development stack is where you have certain languages and/or technologies that are sufficient to work together to build a website. For example,
LAMP stands for Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP
WAMP stands for Windows, Apache, MySQL, PHP
Now these can be considered as minimal requirements to build a dynamic website.
To change any of them with another language/technology largely depends on whether it is possible or not. For Java web development, you have to read on JSP, and what technologies(system/server/database) goes with it. Swapping languages/technologies becomes more possible if you use more commonly used languages/technologies for web development, like RubyOnRails or Python.
Personally, I would recommend you to go for popular web stacks for the sheer amount of resource you can find. Any problems you encounter, chances are another person also encountered it and found a solution right here on stackoverflow.
I am thinking in starting a personal pet web project to experiment with different things and extend my knowledge.
I use Java a lot at work (for web applications :D) and was thinking in making my own in Python since I kinda like this language but never passed the simple scripts stages.
I want to step up a gear regarding Python (using 2.6.5) and don't know what to expect or what framework to choose from: Django, Pylons, web2py etc.
I also don't know how much these frameworks will offer me and how much will I have to write from scratch.
I could use a comparison with Java if somebody can provide me with. I'm thinking at filter functionalities such as sitemesh, custom tags like JSTL; In Python, can I write clean pages of HTML with tags in them or write a lot of print statements (something like servlets did in Java etc?
I don't know exactly how to phrase this question.
I actually need a presentation of how web development is performed in Python, at what level, and what the web frameworks bring to the table.
Can you share from your experience?
TIA!
hi try bottle python framework (bottle.paws.de / bottlepy.org) its really nice to use blistering fast and gets out of your way + the best thing about it is that its one single file to import, i recently migrated from PHP and i have to tell you am so ... loving it!
Python web frameworks run the full gamut of capabilities/facilities, all the way from shims around WSGI such as Bottle and Flask, all the way to full frameworks such as Django and TurboGears, and even "megaframeworks" such as Zope. Each does things slightly differently, but there will be some familiarity from one to the next.
It may sound strange, but there's no need to know "how web development is performed in Python" to start doing it.
In fact, working with language/framework/etc is a single most reliable way to get understanding of it. You won't gain a lot from one-page summaries.
Also, comparing it with Java isn't likely to help. There's no point in doing "Java-style development in Python". If you want to benefit, you'll need to clear your mind and do everything "Python-way".
As to what Python framework to choose, Django seems like like a good starting point. It's very popular, which means you won't be left without tutorials/documentation/help.
PS Short version: just do it.
Python web frameworks do it in a similar way as some Java-based frameworks. I can speak for Django here.
A good comparison could be Play! vs. Django. Both of them foster using an MVC architecture (or MTV = models, templates, views) and already provide you with a lot of things like CRUD operations in admin pages, ORM, authentication, URL configurations, a template language and much more.
Other Java-based frameworks might differ a lot, and I can't give you a general answer. Depending on the choice, there are only few differences. You can simply choose the language and framework you like the most. I'd recommend to go through some tutorials (Django tutorial, Play! framework tutorial for instance) and look which one works best for your needs.
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We're starting to think about the next stage of our company information strategy.
At the moment various departments have Delphi VCL applications that focus on the information that they manage about their Projects. Behind the scenes we've been making sure that the thinking joins up.
We're now at the point where we want to give people the opportunity to browse all the information the we have on either a Project-by-Project basis or search aspect.
We think it will be a web based interface (at least intranet) but are stuck on what to write it in!
Options seem to be Java, PHP or Ruby. Any of the above will involve us learning a new language (no budget for new hires) so we're looking for guidance
You should understand the pros and cons of as many languages and frameworks that you can. I happen to know all three (PHP, Java, and Ruby) and have written many applications in all of them (plus others), but I drastically prefer Ruby. I'm not sure I would appreciate Ruby as much as I do if I didn't have experience in other languages.
Why learn a new language at all? Since you're Delphi developers already, use Delphi. It has VCL for the Web (formerly IntraWeb), which gives you the ability to create pretty good web applications with almost the same functional capabilities as a Delphi Win32 application. IntraWeb (under either name) works like you're used to, right in the IDE, and lets you write Delphi code just like always. It's a viable web solution, especially for shops that have lots of Delphi code already; much of the business logic can be used as is, if it's not tied to the GUI.
You didn't mention what version of Delphi you're using, but there are demos of VCL for the Web or InterWeb in both Delphi 7 (%DELPHI%\Demos\IntraWeb) and Delphi 2007 (C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\RAD Studio\5.0\Demos\IntraWeb\Win32 on WinXP). Delphi 2009 puts them in yet another location (C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\RAD Studio\6.0\Demos on WinXP). I'd start with the Features demo regardless of where it's located on your version of Delphi, as it gives a good overview of the capabilities.
Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with IntraWeb, VCL for the Web, or CodeGear/Embarcadero. Just a Delphi user since 1995.
I don't believe that there's any huge advantage in either one for what you are trying to do. Plenty of people here will support each option (hopefully without a flame-war).
As none of them are familiar why don't you try creating the same tiny prototype in all three and see which you prefer? Your best option is to pick a framework from each and base your efforts on those eg. CakePHP, Ruby on Rails, GWT etc.
By far the biggest hurdle you're going to face is learning about how to build web applications whatever technology you pick - the paradigms are quite different to a traditional thick client apps and while this isn't insurmountable I'd recommend hiring somebody with a web-app skill set if only to get you up and running.
Coming from a Delphi background you'll probably feel more comfortable with Java as a language but I've managed to avoid PHP and not used Ruby so can't really give a fair appraisal.
What I would say for Java is that once you've got the basics of web development down it's incredible powerful, allowing you to build code in a structured way with distinct layers and separated concerns.
There's also a huge wealth of open-source APIs, which these days allow you to focus on the business problems, simply picking and choosing libraries that support your solutions. Also throw into this mix the support for automated testing and you've got a powerful combination in Java.
Although I don't particularly like the language, PHP is probably the easiest to learn. Ruby would not be far behind, although I have no experience with it.
Java, although I love it, is extremely difficult when it comes to setting up and maintaining a web interface. Too many intricacies with XML files, JSPs, Java files, ...
Of course it's all very personal, but PHP doesn't have a steep learning curve like Java with its related web technologies.
After installing, you can get productive almost right away, even if you hardly have any previous knowledge of the language. I think that's once of the main reasons for PHP's popularity.
create a new file with notepad
type: <?php echo "hello!" ?>
save as hello.php
now access it as http://www.yourserver.com/hello.php
And you'll see Hello!
That's it.
The web is full of examples and documentation, and it's really easy to integrate PHP with databases like MySQL. I oftenly use MySQL as the glue between my Delphi applications and websites.
Ruby (on Rails) is quick to learn and it has great community support. Now that I've become comfortable with it, I would not write a web app in anything else. My only negative experience with rails is when DHH rejected my friend request on Facebook - c'est la vie. ;)
The hardest part of web development is the new paradigm. The next hardest part is picking the right framework. I would add two languages to your considerations:
Python (with Django)
ASP.NET
In many ways the Microsoft stack will certainly take a lot of potential mistakes off of your plate, in that it gives you a lot of the framework decisions in a nice package. Of course, you may not like the whole package. Ruby on Rails is kind of the same thing in that respect (giving you the package, that is, but not as much as Microsoft).
But regardless of your choice, the just as important (with the exception of PHP since it is a web language to begin with) is the web framework.
And an important driver in your decision should be the size of the project. A small project won't shoot itself in the foot too bad even on poorly written PHP, but a very large project can certainly get very messy in a dynamic language when everyone is learning it for the first time. It depends on the type of team you have.
given the options, i'd go for ruby ... mostly because it is such an extremely beautiful, powerful, expressive, consistent and radical language ... you can get a very good introduction here ... plus ruby-on-rails and merb (which are united in rails 3) are very productive environements/frameworks to develop apps ... i personally don't know anything which is so suited for fast developement of server driven applications ... also ruby is very good for scripting ...
there are many things i dislike about PHP and Java, but let's not get into details ... my main accusations would be, that Java is quite verbose and bloated, and the most used frameworks even more so ... and PHP has a terrible API design and quite a lot of semantical inconsistencies, even some syntactical, although most of the latter are getting resolved recently ... plus, it is not very fast ... and also, you get many downvotes on stackoverflow, when you critisize one of the languages ... :D
however, a reason to use Java is the massive ammount of tools available (allthough only a part of them is relevant for the web) ... when it comes to PHP, the best thing is deployment ... it's very easy to get PHP running on a server ... and most servers have PHP anyway ... so if you want to write software, that can run on many servers, PHP is the best choice ... if you decide to use it, do yourself a favor, and use it only with a proper framework/environment, as Flow3, Zend, synfony, codeigniter or CakePHP ... PHP makes it easy to hack together some code (i'd even dare to say it was kind of designed for that) ... but you'll quickly regret that you relied on that ...
the microsoft stack was already mentioned as a possible alternative ... up to you to decide ... it's good, but expensive (licenses make scaling much more expensive) ... and IIS has relatively much downtime compared to other servers ...
personally, i'd suggest you use Haxe ... a very nice and expressive language, that allows you to compile to
AVM1 or AVM2 bytecode (virtual machines for flash player 6-8 and 9-10)
neko bytecode (neko is a very fast and lightweight virtual machine, suitable for writing web servers, daemons or desktop apps)
JavaScript source code
ActionScript 3 source code
PHP source code
C++ source code (using neash, you can use flash player API with C++, most notably the display/graphics API, which is very easy to use)
Java source code for android (currently prealpha, but demo looks good) ...
you use a single language to
write servers (be it HTTP or TCP)
create rich clients (be it javascript or flash)
target smartphones (either flash smart phones or iPhone through C++ (well, still not optimal, but progress is being made) and, in near future, Android ...
build desktop apps
on top of that Haxe is an open source community driven language ... plus of course Haxe has a very consistent OO API design and provides many cool languages features, such as high order functions, parametrized enums, generics, and structural subtyping ... and if you decide to use it, be sure to check out haxelib for helpful frameworks/libraries ... ;)
I think you should choose between Python or Ruby. Both have similar capabilities, with relevant frameworks. I think it's largely a stylistic preference, so you should spend time looking at the syntax of both languages.
Since you weren't initially considering Python, check out this video on the Django framework: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-70449010942275062
From a pragmatic standpoint, Java probably has the most power and flexibility, PHP is probably the most widespread but tends to encourage bad coding if you're not careful (I have yet to see a PHP app where I said "Wow, this code is pretty"), and Ruby/Rails is easy to learn and really fast to develop on, but everything is pretty much decided for you (not necessarily a bad thing) and when you step away from the "Rails" way of doing things, it can get messy.
If you're looking for easiest transition from Delphi, consider Flex.
It has the same RAD interface-builder that you're used to in Delphi, it's backed by object-oriented ActionScript and since your site is internal you can mandate using Flash on all client computers.
Besides, Flex rules. Really)
Going from Delphi world to web world? Use C#, since there is a spirit of Delphi in C# (all right, this spirit is Anders Hejlsberg). When learning C# I found a lot of concepts similar to Delphi.
I am new to Web Programming and I hear that there are many biggies like Java, .Net and PHP for Web Application Development.
I would certainly appreciate if I can get some insights on how this technology stack up in comparison and in what scenarios one would prefer one technology over the other.
Thanks for all guidance in advance.
PHP has low resource requirements, really cheap hosting, really low barrier to entry and is the most popular Web framework bar none.
That being said, PHP is a purely interpreted language (opcode caches notwithstanding) so tends to be slower than Java (not that that usually matters), the syntax is inconsistent and it's easy to make huge errors (like not sanitizing database query inputs; but you can do that in any language).
Neither is better than the other. For casual Web development I definitely prefer PHP most of the time. Java is probably better for more "enterprise" type software.
This is just my opinion:
PHP is a great language for building the web pages themselves. It is relatively easy to learn. And it is very easy to combine the static HTML and the custom generated one. It is quite powerful. For example, Wikipedia's MediaWiki is written in PHP. It is also straightforward to access databases. But in the end, it is essentially a scripting language.
It's hard to write maintainable code, and complex logic (e.g., a lot of calculations, algorithms, etc.) is not very natural in PHP.
Java is more of a "serious language". It can do a lot of things. Including web. However, creating the HTML is more "painful" and less natural than in PHP. Java shines, however, where there is a lot of smart logic in your program. There are also advantages to writing in non-scripting languages. And of course, if you know Java, you can use it for a lot of things.
.NET is nice, but generally restricts you to windows platforms, and the best tools are not free (unlike Java). I would only go into .NET if your local job market has a lot of .NET jobs, that changes a lot from place to place.
Also, PHP jobs generally pay less than Java/.NET jobs and seem to have a lower reputation.
If you're new to web application development, make sure to give Ruby on Rails a try as well. It's a joy to work with compared to Java and PHP (I've worked with all 3). It's fast, common tasks are very easily accomplished and the community is huge and vibrant.
One thing to look at when making your decision is how you are going to host your web-app. If you are looking to host it somewhere cheap you will be limited to what you can use, most likely things like PHP or ASP. If however you are willing to spend more money (or host yourself) you can get more control over your hosting and therefore make use of more technologies.
I have fairly good control over my hosting package but I have stuck with PHP because I found it easier to get to grips with having not really done anything like it before.
I agree that the barrier of complexity to entry for php is lower, so on average you probably get more supply (php programmers), more demand (php type jobs), at a lowered-by-competition price (lower job salaries on average).
From a starting web-programmer perspective, php is good because you can use it in so many ways, html + a tiny bit of scripting, extensive procedural programming, OOP, and even something resembling functional programming. Since the web is so easy to get an audience for your software, you can really keep learning while you're doing. Php is what let me break into programming, which I don't think I would have managed if I were working with a language less tied to the web. After a good 6 years, off and on, I've got myself to the point where I'm comfortable with php as a job, but am looking to personally break from web programming to off-the-web programming (trying to get into clojure) and different languages. After all this time, I've become more and more aware of the often-lacking-security and the filled-with-legacy-functions nature of php.
The php language itself has a huge base of relatively high level functions built in that match tasks that people have done in the past, so you can get some complex concepts distilled into simple functions, even before you go messing with the many choices of libraries that are out there. So you can pretty much work with a huge body of code out of the box on most servers.
So it's an enjoyable way to break into web programming and build up your body of knowledge, a great jump-off points, though not such a specialized language that you can rake in the dough without a lot of work. From a hiring perspective, it's probably pretty easy to pick up a kid off the street who can write a quick web-app in php (that probably describes me a few years ago), but much harder to get someone who will write code that will be maintainable in five years.
Oh, and one more thing: doing programming needs source control, so get to know git and github.com or gitorious.com. It's hard when you first start to get into it, so cheat and use whatever tools and aids you can, but it's so worth it to have the freedom of being able to write whatever kind of programming you want.
The git website about git:http://git-scm.com/
Github guides on git: http://github.com/guides/home
It'll open up how you work and prototype.
People make a good point about the inconsistencies of PHP. However there are numerous frameworks available that alleviate a lot of the problems of 'vanilla' PHP. So the low barrier of entry + huge community + numerous frameworks = the best web programming language IMHO.
I'm trying to learn Java but it just seem like there are too many parts to put together.
You have JSP, Java EE, Java SE, Java ME etc....
I can get Netbeans to do basic but just taking a peek at spring framework it seem like a lot of work to get it to run in the ide from the numerous configuration .
I want to get into web programming and maybe mobile.
Any advice?
Another programming language?
Is java this complex or does it get easier?
Java as a language is certainly not too complicated. J2EE in its entirety is only just about feasible for a one-man team - but you rarely need the whole of J2EE.
It's perfectly reasonable for a one-man team to implement a medium-sized web application. I'm not saying one person could write GMail on their own, but you shouldn't be too scared of the technology stack - find the bits you actually need and concentrate on those. On the other hand, that in itself takes a fair amount of experience - I wouldn't really want to be starting off on an enterprise app (even a small one) on my own as a newcomer to Java.
Start small. Learn the core (the language, IO, collections) - and then start with small projects. Work out whether you want to be in mobile, desktop, server or whatever - don't try all of them simultaneously. Gradually you'll build up your experience.
It's not that Java-the-language is complex, it's that vast libraries and frameworks exist that can help you do your work. This is true for many programming languages. Look at CPAN for Perl, for example. What language to use depends in great part on what your goals are.
You can start simple and work your way up to larger and larger projects.
Java is by no means too complex for a one-man operation, but learning any form of full-formed web programming is a lot to learn when it's all new. If you were looking at .NET for the same purpose, there is a lot there too.
Unless you are doing huge-enterprise applications, ignore all of J2EE except for JSP and JMS and a very few other components. The lion's share of J2EE is only useful in the context of an enterprise application that needs to scale, and in fact can be harmful when used in smaller applications.
The frameworks such as Spring, Hibernate, Apache-*, Web Services, and so on help you do your job, but are yet more things to learn to do your job. There is a lot to learn.
Should you use Java? Well, quite a lot of development is done with LAMP (or WAMP): Linux (or Windows) + Apache-HTTPD + MySQL + PHP. With this, you don't need to worry about Java or .NET or any of those frameworks. LAMP/WAMP works very well for a wide class of applications.
Java and .NET on the server are (sort of) more appropriate for larger services, but once you are familiar with them, they work just fine for smaller services as well.
You have to decide what your exact goals are, then look at how people have implemented the kind of thing that you're looking at doing. This will help you figure out what technologies are the most necessary for the niches you're looking at going into.
Java -- the language -- is one of the simplest strongly typed languages in existence. Vastly simpler than C++ or even its close cousin C#, I would argue.
The standard APIs/libraries really are huge, but nobody learns the whole thing. You're suffering from the intimidation all beginners feel when they look at something that big and new, but this will pass as you just do stuff. First, you need to learn the standard utility stuff -- the collections in java.util, mostly -- and then, for basic web dev, probably next the JDBC library and Java Servlets and JSP. And that's it.
As an alternate tact here...
Another problem you will encounter in Java is Choice. You have a LOT of it in terms of frameworks and technologies etc.
My best advice is search around for about a day if you're so inclined to find what technologies attract you, or who's arguments sway you. Then, pick one. ANY one. Really, it doesn't matter, especially for a first project. They all have learning curves, they all have strengths and weaknesses, they all have fans and foes.
The key though, is once you have chosen, STICK WITH IT. You will inevitably stumble upon some problem, you will pose this problem to someone else, someplace else, and they will say "oh, you should have used QED instead of KnifeForkSpoon". And you will second guess yourself, go off and hear about the wonders of QED, and all of the kittens born under it and hungry children fed by it. If you succumb to that siren song of "greener grass", your project will flail. (Not fail, flail.)
Don't be wooed, don't fall for it. Just fix your problem and move on. At the end, and you're on a new project, THEN go and look for the more bestest greatness silver bullet.
As an aside, if I were just getting in to web programming today in Java, I would humbly offer this simple recipe:
JSP 2.0 with JSTL for markup and presentation
Stripes or Struts 2 for logic (note Struts 2 (TWO), Struts 1 is plain evil)
"raw" JDBC with a database pool for persistence
Tomcat or Glassfish for a container (tomcat more popular, GF easier to use out of the box)
Netbeans or Eclipse (NB is easier to use out of the box)
This uses the most fundamental, yet functional facilities for web apps in Java today, lots of applicability, and solves the major issues of a web app without covering them up with thick, impenetrable layers.
You will learn a lot using these "crude" tools.
You need to learn to pick your battles. Covering the whole J2EE is a massive task and, for most, unnecessary to begin with. I think a common mistake for beginner programmers is that they think they need to learn everything. You'll find your time much more productive if you focus on the core language constructs to begin with, and focus on either web or mobile programming.
You'll be extremely surprised (and pleased) at how much you can carry over from one area to the next. Once you know the language, the different libraries for different platforms are just tools...Stick with Java. It is a good language to learn.
Can I take "get into web programming" to mean that you're just learning web programming in general? If that's true, if you have the time you might consider setting Java aside temporarily and giving LAMP/WAMP a closer look as Eddie suggested. (Though I'd personally use Perl instead of PHP. PHP is sexier resume fodder and lets you do some very cool things on the front end, but in my experience, when it comes to writing server-side code Perl simply blows PHP's doors off. And I've heard that the HTML::Mason extension puts Perl on pretty even footing with PHP's front-end niftiness, but I haven't used it myself.)
I've made a living writing writing web apps in Java and web apps in Perl. I'm fond of both languages, but as a learning tool, I'd put Perl well ahead of Java. As you're finding out, Java's a bulky bastich. Part of that is, as others have mentioned, a function of Java being a mature language with a variety of extensions that are unlikely to apply to your immediate needs. But even stripped down, you'll still need to deal with quite a bit of overhead before you can even get your first "Hello World" web app to run. Comparatively, you'll get rolling much quicker with Perl.
(In fact, Java tends to be pretty verbose in general compared with other languages. That's not necessarily a bad thing; my one big complaint with Perl is you often encounter code that leverages various shortcuts and side effects to do an unholy ton of work in just a few lines. This code is often brilliant, elegant, compact, and utterly bloody unintelligible to a non-expert. Terseness is not a virtue for the poor idiot who has to modify code six months after it was written -- especially when you wind up being the poor idiot in question.)
And as a way of learning web programming, Java's sophistication can actually work against it. As a professional, I'm glad Java's web-based tools automagically take care of a lot of grunt work for me, like session management. But I didn't completely understand what it was doing until I was thrown into a Perl-only environment and had to deal with all that stuff myself.
I guess it depends on why you're doing this and how much time you can devote to it. If time is limited and you're looking for something that will appeal to prospective employers, then yeah, Java's an excellent choice, and you've gotten some solid advice in this thread about how to get started using it.
But if you do have the time, I highly recommend giving old-school Perl/CGI programming a sniff. It ain't a particularly marketable skillset anymore, but you'll learn things worth knowing.
You don't have to learn all of Java and its libraries. Just learn what you need for the job at hand. You will find there are plenty of options, but you don't have to get the best option every time.
If your base programming concepts are clear no
language should be difficult for you. I have switched over from vb 6 to java to c# to objective c now. What really makes a coders life easy is the IDE, debugging tools, documentation and lot of blog posts which google can search :-) regarding one man team my personal view is I am at my best when left to code and research alone with the help of google and stack overflow ofcourse :-) so I do think in programming large sized teams often lead to more screw ups than results
Java is not a complex language, altough it looks frightening at first.
I started learning Java from home, not a school, at 15 years of age (yes, yes, I know that's nothing to brag about) trough a book. It's a norwegian book, so I won't link to amazon;)
After reading/hacking trough half the book I found out I was better off ditching the book and looking for more stuff online. Google really IS awesome!
I would often read about all the fancy features of the JVM, frameworks, third-party libraries, JSRs and so on, and how much better my life would be with them all, but I just ignored them all. Yes I tried, but found it too confusing to learn Java and a framework that wasn't really necessary, at the same time.
Some people gave me hell for not using insertRandomLibraryName() or insertFancyFrameworkName(), and told me all about how much time and effort i would save, but I'm glad I didn't listen.
Now times have changed, and I still learn new things, or easier ways to do old things, every day. And I'm glad I took the time to learn the language itself before all the fancy stuff.
Also, don't use a notepad for writing code, use an IDE from the beginning. The only one I've ever really used is NetBeans, so that's the only thing I can recommend, but I sure am really happy with it!
As to Java SE, ME and EE, start with SE, and you'll propably find that it's enough for now. You don't have to use EE to write for the web, SE is fully capable of webernet stuff;D