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I want to use emacs for java coding, but I'm confused on what mode to use for java coding. There's jdee, which seems ide-like; malabar, who is said to be more well versed in java 1.5 constructs than jdee; and emacs-eclim, which is an eclipse backend for emacs. There are also a wealth of completion extensions for emacs, and I'm also confused on which one to use. In fact, I'm so confused that I deferred using any of them until I get recommendations.
What is the current best option for java-mode + completion in emacs? And, if ever I decide to use a combination of what I mentioned above, will conflicts happen?
For those used to the power of Emacs text manipulation then Eclipse can seem like pedaling a bicycle with one foot. The Emacs+ plugin from http://www.mulgasoft.com/ is excellent for getting Emacs key bindings into Eclipse.
I use both Eclipse and Emacs a lot, but if I only did Java development I might use only Eclipse with Emacs+. It takes some work to get many Eclipse features enabled on Emacs.
My advice is to use Emacs >= 23. If you are on a Mac, look at AquaMacs. I use JDEE as the Java plugin. This has the serious drawback of not playing well with generics. It's not that it stops working, it's just that a lot of stuff isn't recognized. Do not use the old 2.3.5 JDEE plugin (that comes with most Linux distributions), but get the 2.4 version from the sourceforge site. Also get the Emacs Code Browser (ECB); this is a plugin that will give you stuff like Eclipse's Project Explorer and Outline views (other developers will look at this and not believe you when tell them that it's Emacs). I've used this setup for commercial projects on Windows, Mac, and Linux in the past year.
In fact, Eclipse plays pretty well with Emacs and I often switch between the two. Eclipse has some nice refactoring tools that I used to use sed for, and it has a good debugger interface. You can use them simultaneously. I find that I use Eclipse when working with other people's code and Emacs when I am writing my own code---Emacs is that much faster. Note that for me, a lot of the value of Emacs is the non-Java functionality, like editing Tomcat configuration files on remote servers from my local Emacs, writing professional documents with LaTeX, developing in Python or Bash or MATLAB or XML, and the odd text manipulation task (e.g., converting CVS files into String[] arrays).
I haven't used the other two projects you mention. It is possible to use the Eclipse compiler with Emacs already, so I'm not sure I see the point of the emacs-eclim project, which seems to be moribund anyway. The Malabar project might be interesting, but seems to be the product of one somewhat cranky developer (e.g., the warning "if you're not using Maven (why?) you should not consider malabar-mode"---I'll tell my clients that?).
Java on Emacs is in a sad state. I wish for JDEE to be revitalized, but it's not clear when or if that will happen. The web site and mailing list offer few clues.
I use emacs-eclim with auto-complete-mode support and java-mode highlighting exclusively for Java programming. 90% of my work is done in emacs, but I switch to eclipse when I need to debug, run unit tests or do major refactorings. All in all, this setup works very well for me.
I haven't tried JDEE for years, but I remember it was a b*tch to set up. I didn't care for the UI very much, as it put up lots of prearranged windows that were locked in place. I like to be able to switch back and forth between editing buffers, often showing just one window, but splitting and rearranging on the fly when it becomes necessary.
Note: I am an emacs-eclim maintainer, and this has probably coloured my judgement.
If you're using Maven, then I'd recommend malabar-mode. It will set everything up for you automagically, no need for editing project files like you'd have to do with JDEE. The downside I've found with malabar, is that it can consume a lot of memory if you've got a lot of multi level module projects open.
Both Malabar and JDEE will give you "true" completion, i.e. only completions that are possible. However, there are two amazing "intelligent guessing completion frameworks" in Emacs. hippie-expand and auto-complete.
The former is great (can complete whole code blocks for you, making it possible to e.g. cycle through all if-tests in your projects), but auto-complete mode is even better. It'll give you a nice intelli sense style menu, will "learn" as you use it, and allows you to define a file with the completions you'd like to be available in the various languages.
one thing I hate about java development are their IDE's, and configuration/setup involved to initially get going.
does grails have these issues? from the looks of it, it seems you need a command line open and then any text editor will do. (apart from a mysql and tomcat install).
are these assumptions correct or its better to get eclipse setup also?
I would recommend NetBeans over Eclipse for Groovy/Grails development. I like Eclipse for Java, but for Groovy/Grails the support in NetBeans is vastly superior. I can't speak to IntelliJ directly, but I have heard good things.
You are correct in stating that an IDE is not strictly necessary, and its advantages are less in Groovy compared to Java. For instance, code complete is a much less exact science with dynamic languages. Still though, I do find it convenient to have the project structure more easily navigable and syntax highlighting is good for catching pesky missing quotes and other things the IDE can identify.
This is really a matter of personal preference. The arguments for and against using an IDE when doing Grails development are more or less the same as for any other language though the case for an IDE is weaker when using a dynamically-typed language like Groovy.
A lot of Groovy/Grails developers seems to use a text editor (TextMate on the Mac is particularly popular), but personally, I use IntelliJ.
Since about 4 months I'm working with the SpringSource Tool Suite; for me (personal preference!) this is the most intuitive and balanced IDE to work with.
Before, I used IntelliJ, Eclipse and NetBeans, in this order, and every IDE had something disturbing. IntelliJ was fast and comfortable to work with but expensive and the community verion doesn't feature Grails integration; Eclipse has/ had an awful Groovy/ Grails plugin and crashed all the time; Netbeans was terribly slow and the interface is not that intuitive (for me).
STS impressed me with 'just working'. I haven't discovered any killer features yet, or it isn't incredibly fast, but I like to work with it.
On the other side, I've also developed smaller apps just with a console and a text editor (with java source code highlighting :-) ... but only non-productive ones.
Our team has tried the three big-dogs (NetBeans, IntelliJ, and Spring STS). As noted above, all have pros and cons, but we ended up settling on NetBeans as the most well rounded for our needs (which includes Maven). You should try them all and see what you think. The good news is that the projects are self defining, so you should be able to swap between IDE's with minimal pain.
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Closed 11 years ago.
Is Eclipse the best IDE for Java?
If not, is there something better?
I want to know and possibly try it out. Thanks.
Let me just start out by saying that Eclipse is a fantastic IDE for Java and many other languages. Its plugin architecture and its extensibility are hard to rival and the fact that it's free is a huge plus for smaller teams or tight budgets.
A few things that I hate about Eclipse.
The documentation is really lacking. I don't know who writes the stuff, but if it's not just flatly missing, it's incomplete. If it's not incomplete, then it's just flat out wrong. I have wasted many precious hours trying to use a given feature in Eclipse by walking through its documentation only to discover that it was all trash to begin with.
Despite the size of the project, I have found the community to be very lacking and/or confusing enough to be hard to participate in. I have tried several times to get help on a particular subject or plugin only to be sent to 3 or 4 different newsgroups who all point to the other newsgroup or just plain don't respond. This can be very frustrating, as much smaller open source products that I use are really good about answering questions I have. Perhaps it's simply a function of the size of the community.
If you need functionality beyond the bundled functionality of one of their distros (for instance, the Eclipse for Java EE Developers distro which bundles things like the WTP), I have found the installation process for extra plugins excruciatingly painful. I don't know why they can't make that process simpler (or maybe I'm just spoiled on my Mac at home and don't know how bad it really is out in the 'real' world) but if I'm not just unsuccessful, oftentimes it's a process of multiple hours to get a new plugin installed. This was supposedly one of their goals in 3.4 (to make installation of new projects simpler); if they succeeded, I can't tell.
Documentation in the form of books and actual tutorials is sorely lacking. I want a master walkthrough for something as dense and feature-rich as Eclipse; something that says, 'hey, did you know about this feature and how it can really make you more productive?'. As far as I've found, nothing like that exists. If you want to figure out Eclipse, you've got one option, sit down and play with it (literally play with it, not just see a feature and go and read the documentation for it, because that probably doesn't exist or is wrong).
Despite these things, Eclipse really is a great IDE. Its refactoring tooling works tremendously well. The handling of Javadoc works perfectly. All of features we've come to expect of an IDE are their (code completion, templates, integration with various SCMSs, integration with build systems). Its code formatting and cleanup tools are very powerful. I find its build system to work well and intuitively. I think these are the things upon which its reputation is really built.
I don't have enough experience with other IDEs or with other distros of Eclipse (I've seen RAD at work quite a few times; I can't believe anyone would pay what they're charging for that) to comment on them, but I've been quite happy with Eclipse for the most part. One tip I have heard from multiple places is that if you want Eclipse without a lot of the hassle that can come with its straight install, go with a for-pay distro of it. My Eclipse is a highly recommended version that I've seen all over the net that is really very affordable (last I heard, $50 for the distro plus a year of free upgrades). If you have the budget and need the added functionality, I'd go with something like that.
Anyway, I've tried to be as detailed as I can. I hope this helps and good luck on your search! :)
IntelliJ IDEA was awsome. Now it is just "better than Eclipse". You can code in IDEA several times faster than in Eclipse in my experience (I moved from being an Eclipse early-adopter to IDEA and haven't looked back) but IDEA has a number of flaws:
Full version is not free.
It hogs memory
Project management is not great
Jetbrains keep bringing out minor
enhancements and calling them major
releases. IDEA is now slower and
buggier than it was a few years ago.
And you get charged for the
pleasure! (IDEA now has a free Community Edition)
I still wouldn't go back though; the code refactorings and intentions in IDEA are just too good.
A major version of Eclipse came out a while back and it took me about an hour of searching on the website to figure out what was actually contained in the release which might persuade me back into the fold. Visit JetBrains to see how to sell an IDE!
There is no best IDE. You make it as good as you get used using it.
Eclipse can't remotely be called an IDE to my opinion. Okay that's exaggerated, I know. It merely reflects my intense agony thanks to eclipse! Whatever you do, it just doesn't work! You always need to fight with it to make it do things the right way. During that time, you're not developing code which is what you're supposed to do, right? eclipse and maven integration: unreliable! Eclipse and ivy integration: unreliable. WTP: buggy buggy buggy! Eclipse and wstl validation: buggy! It complains about not finding URL's out of the blue even though they do exist, and a few days later, without having changed them, it suddenly does find them etc etc. I Could write a frakking book about it. To answer your question: NO ECLIPSE IS NOT EVEN CLOSE THE BEST IDE!!! IntelliJ is supposed to be MUCH better!
Eclipse was the first IDE to move me off of XEmacs. However, when my employer offered to buy me a Intellij IDEA license if I wanted one it only took 3 days with an evaluation copy to convince me to go for it.
It seems like so many small things are just nicer.
IntelliJ is good one but its not free!!Then NetBeans is also a good option.Also if you are IBM suite WSAD is good
I'd have to vote for Netbeans as the best one currently. Eclipse is decent, but right now Netbeans is better.
I used IntelliJ for almost 5+ years (from v1.5 to v7) and around 8 months ago I migrated to IBM RAD (which is built on top of old eclipse platform) and around 3 months ago I settled down with Eclipse (Ganymede).
I used IntelliJ on a mid size projects (with 10k classes) and I'm using Eclipse on one with just few hundreds of classes.
I found both of these IDEs (IntelliJ and Eclipse) to be good. IBM RAD is just a waste of money (ofcourse one could be stuck in an IBM shop without choice).
IntelliJ has far superior refactoring capabilities and keyboard shortcuts for most of the features compared to Eclipse. It supports importing projects from Eclipse. It has better built in xml handling capabilities (with refactorings applicable almost like for the java code). Built in Intelli Sense is also very good.
Eclipse is a great tool and its free. It took me around 1-2 months to get used to Eclipse from IntelliJ (lot of unlearning of shortcuts), but I got hang of Eclipse, it has been pretty smooth. I havent used Eclipse on mid size project.
Both IntelliJ and Eclipse have active plugin communities and both integrate well with version control systems, unit test frameworks, application servers and profilers.
IntelliJ started becoming slow and bloated starting from v4.0. It was slow with mid size projects. I would not use IntelliJ unless its performance can be improved.
I havent used these two IDEs for anything other than java development.
If you are a java developer and your company pays for IntelliJ and if your project is not too big, go for it. Otherwise, dont despair: Eclipse is always there.
I gave Eclipse a 3 months ride at my new work, but after that I found out that normal Maven project can be run in IntelliJ IDEA too (unless it's Eclipse plugin/EMF/something of course ;-)). 3 months are not enough to compare it with 8+ years with IDEA, but it's enough to claim I gave it a fair try. I decided to live with its perspectives (other IDEs don't need them), with its poor debugger (doesn't show date values unless you click on them! etc.), with its comparatively worse completion than IDEA has.
Now after all those years IDEA is also free (community edition) and I use it without much trouble. Of course I miss some of those "Ultimate" features of paid version, but it's far better than Eclipse. Biggest difference is the whole mindset needed for both of these IDEs. But after you master the mindset of either I can't understand what can anyone hold to Eclipse - unless you need its plugin ecosystem or you have some serious investments there.
Example of "mindset" differences: You have to save in Eclipse, not in IDEA, and I don't care what is better or worse - but you have to save in Eclipse to let him clean up underlined errors that are not errors anymore, etc. ;-) You have to save there in order to get rid of errors in other files too, because other file doesn't see the changes otherwise.
I blogged much more about this topic - and yes, I'm biased, though I tried to be as little as possible. But after some time it wasn't simply possible: :-)
http://virgo47.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/eclipse-vs-intellij-idea/
http://virgo47.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/from-intellij-idea-to-eclipse-2/
http://virgo47.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/from-intellij-idea-to-eclipse-3/
http://virgo47.wordpress.com/2011/04/10/from-intellij-idea-to-eclipse-4/
And no, not even IDEA is perfect, I know it. Because I use it a lot. But it is the best Java IDE if you ask me. Even the Community edition.
[This is not really an answer, just an anecdote. I worked with guys who used emacs heavily loaded with macros and color coded. Crazy! Why do that when there are so many good IDEs out there?]
if you know you way around emacs you can code 100x faster then an IDE. And it can handle bunch of diffrent languages so you do not need to change your coding enviroment if you need to code in another language. Works on all operating systems, you can custimize/add anything you want. Even edit files half way across the world over ssh.(no downloading or uploading).
Before calling them crazy you gotto use it first. i am sure they are calling you crazy for using an IDE :).
It is often said that there are better IDE's for various languages (eg Java) than Eclipse.
The power of Eclipse is that it's basically the same IDE for many languages, meaning that if you know you'll have to code in several programming languages (Java, C++, Python) it's a huge advantage that you only have to learn one IDE: Eclipse.
Eclipse! It can be slow at times and uses a lot of memory but it works well.
I don't know if Eclipse is THE BEST Java IDE, but it is definitely very decent and my favorite IDE. I tried IntelliJ briefly before, and found that it's pretty similar to Eclipse (IntelliJ might offer some nicer features, but Eclipse is free and open source).
I never really tried NetBean because I know Eclipse before I know NetBean.
Eclipse is my favorite because:
Free
Extensible (to a point that you can turn it in to C++ IDE or DB Development IDE)
Open source
I know how to write Eclipse plugin
You can develop a product easily with Eclipse (exp. Lime Wire is Eclipse under the hood)
If you are used to using conventional Java IDE like JCreator you might need some time to get used to Eclipse. I remember when I first learned Eclipse, I didn't know how to compile Java source...
I would suggest that in order to find the best IDE FOR YOU, try what people recommended (NetBean, Eclipse, and IntelliJ), and see which one you like the most, then stick with it and become an expert of it. Having the right IDE will boost up your productivity a lot in my opinion.
I am going to have to recommend Oracle JDeveloper. I personally thought that Eclipse was the best Java IDE too at one point. Then I was introduced to Oracle JDeveloper by my job. I find the UI design much better than Eclipse. Also it comes with an incredible amount of features built in including great support for EJB3, JSF, WebServices, etc. It is essentially an IDE for the entire JavaEE stack (and the Oracle ADF framework as well). - All of the tools you will (probably) need for JavaEE development come with this IDE right out of the box, no plugins required (unless you download the minimalist version).
Talking about java Ide it is better to go for NetBeans.In My opinion it is better and provide great advantage over other ide but it has disadvantage over Eclipse that it grabs more more while working but do to its features and support i suggest Netbeans than any ide
Agreeing with the others. Netbeans is a pretty good IDE which also caters for other languages (PHP, Ruby, C/C++) if you're prone to using any of those. Then you get the added benefit of knowing your way around the IDE when deciding to pick up a new language.
To be fair however, I haven't had much time with the eclipse IDE.
This is subjective... I find it to be a good tool.
It depends what kind of development you're doing - for EJB stuff, many folk would favour Netbeans. It also depends how much you want to spend - I assume you're talking about free IDEs?
In my opinion if you got the resources to use, then go with eclipse. NetBeans which is awesome like eclipse is another best option, these are the only 2 I've ever used (loved, needed, wanted)
Eclipse is hands down the most popular, and for good reason!
Hope this helps.
I'd agree with some of the others out there saying that NetBeans and IntelliJ are both good IDEs. And I'd say that in using all three (Eclipse + other two), that Eclipse is by far my favorite. I found some of the documentation out-dated, but also found the support community very helpful. I started using Eclipse by jumping into the deep end of the pool: writing an RCP before ever learning the IDE. The IDE was intuitive to use, and when I found the right news groups to post to - most of my questions were already answered. The hardest thing for me (and frustrating, admittedly) was knowing how to phrase my search terms in order to get to the answer that was already posted.
Remember that Eclipse is still "relatively new" as an IDE player, though given that - it's pretty darn robust.
My only complaint about Eclipse is that with each new release, it seems to hog up more resources. With a mid-sized project/workspace, it takes seemingly forever to build (or rebuild) the project. Compared to IntelliJ, it's faster and more intuitive to use.
Don't forget that Eclipse Platform was started by IBM. There are few platforms out there.
IBM Websphere Application Developer
(WSAD) and/or Rational Application
Developer (RAD) which is a
Eclipse-type IDE from IBM (actually,
that's Eclipse with IBM specialized
libraries/plugins).
MyEclipse (never used it but it's another Eclipse-type IDE)
Sun Microsystem's
NetBeans. It's too Java-centric as
it's designed to create applications
purely in java (NetBeans runs in
Java).
IntelliJ (to name but a few)
Oracle JDeveloper (I never really liked the directory structure layout JDeveloper creates).
The advantage with Eclipse is that it can be customized to your development pleasure, plugins can be written for Eclipse to conform to your needs (e.g. The Eclipse "Easy Explorer" plugin for browsing the directory of your source in Windows Explorer).
Eclipse allows you to also incorporate other languages/SDK's, such as C++, Silverlight projects, Android Projects for development. You can also easily manage resources in Eclipse.
In my experience NetBeans are resource intensive. Oracle JDeveloper and IntelliJ aren't free though.
Oh yes, If you have issues or bugs with Eclipse, Eclipse has the ability to restart and submit the crash to Eclipse servers.
This is not really an answer, just an anecdote. I worked with guys who used emacs heavily loaded with macros and color coded. Crazy! Why do that when there are so many good IDEs out there?
I have experience with using JCreator LE. I like it because it is easy to use and it is free. Give it a try if it interests you.
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Closed 10 years ago.
This is half rant, half question.
Is it worth using Grails? I'm trying to develop a relatively simple database-driven web application. My expertise is in Java, so naturally Grails seemed like a good choice. At first I thought of using Spring, JPA and Hibernate, but I’ve used that previously and have run into all sorts of tedious configuration and coding work. Grails advertises itself as solving this.
My biggest frustration with Grails is all of the little things that don't work. What I mean is that it doesn't work as one would intuitively think it should. It's very rough around the edges. I run into problems constantly. Sometimes it's my lack of Grails understanding — other times I've discovered legitimate Grails bugs.
One major issue is the lack of good Eclipse integration. There is a Groovy and Grails plugin, but it doesn't do much other than syntax highlighting. Calling Groovy from Java and vice versa is very painful to configure. Not having good IDE support is a major bummer.
What happens is I sit down trying to develop my web application. At the end of the day I realize that I've spent about 85% of the day debugging Grails-related issues. If it isn't Eclipse problems then it's eager loading, fetching in the view, one-to-many relationships, weird empty file bug behavior, a weird property/getter bug — it just goes on and on. This is just a sample of the issues I ran into today. My last sit-down with Grails yielded a whole bunch of different issues.
I sometimes wonder if it's worth it. I'm curious if others have experienced this. Are there people actually using Grails to productively crank out a web application? Are there other frameworks for rapid web development that I should be considering?
We had a team of 12 people all seasoned senior Java devs who learnt Grails from 0.6B and we are all still working on projects based on Grails. I wouldn't go back to Java willingly, and we are all relieved to have broken the back of how to get somewhere quick with a Grails app.
It was a struggle, it was not easy and there was/is frustration.
Nevertheless we delivered something very quickly given our ongoing efforts.. There are bugs, many which have workarounds.
I have heard of several instances of developers who are good at Java trying to dive into deep, complex incantations of Grails projects. We eschewed all Java and went pure-Grails and Groovy. We made sure we started simple, built up the complexity as manageably and as practically as possible.. We dared not dive in the deepest end and hope that our Java knowledge was enough to carry us.
We had eventually created something huge and complex that worked fabulously and did so far faster than writing pure Java/Spring/Hibernate version; and thats without decent IDE support and a far worse situation in terms of bugs than today.
As regards Eclipse support, the only real IDE to use for Grails/Groovy is Intellij - the Eclipse support is way behind, sadly: I was an Eclipse lover and am far from being an Intellij convert - the Grails/Groovy support blow everything else away though.
Yes, Grails is immature compared to Spring perhaps. Or Hibernate. And I would wager that in the first 1.5 years of their existence they were equally as fraught with issue.
That being as it is, places the onus on you, to take care that you keep complexity to the absolute minimum, to carefully test-first (in our opinion) and build up to complexity gradually and with care.
There is no fast code solution with Java once you involve Spring/Hibernate in the stack. The complexity Grails embodies is a reflection of Spring's / Hibernate's own complexity. If you feel that you time is better spent doing it with pure Java, I wouldn't argue otherwise.. I still have my WTFs but now that the steep learning curve is behind me I think I will stick w Grails some more.
I very much enjoy writing grails application for two reasons:
I don't have to use Java
I can use Java
I think after having become familiar with grails one gets his things done very quickly and elegantly.
So much for the plus side. The minus side is performance, which hits me on two aspects: deployment and testdriven development.
I haven't managed to run more than 3 grails applications on a single (rented) server, because I quickly hit the memory and performance limits. There are simply too much frameworks included.
Plus, the testrunner of grails isn't worth that name. When I run unit tests, they should be done in an instant, not in 10 to 20s. So I find myself all the time writing business logic in plain java, because I can test it much faster. But I guess that this can be addressed with a better integration into the IDE (eclipse).
I think Spring's support of Grails is going to be a big boost. If anybody can move it past CRUD on the web, it's those guys.
I also think it's reaching a critical mass. There are several new books that will be hitting the market in 2009. I think those will help the adoption rate.
I fully agree with the original posters sentiments.
We are a Java + Spring shop and took the opportunity to try out Grails.
We first created a very small test application which turned out to be pretty simple to do and it worked pretty well. The main issues we had here were due to our lack of knowledge with Groovy and Grails.
Following this success (confidence boost) we decided we would attempt a slightly larger project. This has been a much more painful experience. As mentioned by others, we have uncovered all sorts of bugs and issues which were not immediately apparent on the surface. The app restart cycles get extremely painful and unless you have really good test coverage its a nightmare to do any sort of re-factoring.
Really frustrating is having code fail without a single error message! It just does not work and you don't know why?
I like the ease of use of plugins for JMS, Quartz and Remoting to name a few. Does away with a lot of tedious XML.
I almost like GORM for its simplicity though we have had several issues as well.
I don't like the loosely typed nature of Groovy and the fact that you have to run your application just to be able to catch a bunch of errors, reminds me too much of PHP or Rails.
At the end of the day we are asking ourselves if its possible to write a complex piece of manageable software using Grails...
We have a Grails application about to go into production....so we will see.
We are using grails + on the web layer + java with hibernate and spring on the service layer. It's the classic three layers (web, logic, data) where the web is grails and the logic is implemented in java. As is usual in java, we use bean objects that represents the data between different layers.
It works pretty well and it was the best solution for our case as the bean objects were already there, as well as the database structure. From our experience, I think grails has a great value as the web presentation layer, but I would stick with java to write the business rules and to persist the application data - as grails "is" java, all the grails-java integration is pretty straight-forward.
We use eclipse to develop the grails application and it's poor integration, as people said in here. But, as a suggestion from other developer, we run the grails application from the command-line and only use eclipse to save the source files, and it works pretty well, as the application is updated on the fly.
I yet don't feel comfortable for using grails in other places than in the presentation layer.
I have a lot more experience with Ruby on Rails than I do with anything in the Java world, so I'm coming in from a different perspective. Overall, Grails is much more rough-around-the-edges than Rails is, partially due to its immaturity, and partially because it relies on two insanely complex frameworks under-the-covers (Spring and Hibernate). Rails also has a much bigger community.
But, Groovy as a language has made huge strides, and is a pleasure to work with. Thanks to the improvements made in Groovy 1.6, Grails is quite a bit snappier than JRuby on Rails, and you get amazingly good XML support via GPath. There's a lot of nice features you get by being on the JVM (like concurrency and tons of threadsafe code), but without having to muck about with Java (a language I don't much care for), so I'm having a really hard time of convincing myself to use anything on MRI.
Python is looking tempting, though, I must admit.
As for your Eclipse problems, I can't help. I use Vim and Emacs, mostly because I can't stand using IDEs. For dynamic languages like Groovy, Ruby, and Python, though, I don't think IDEs really introduce any real benefit, as there isn't really any place for code generation, or a need to compile. Maybe try working sans IDE for awhile and see if things are smoother?
So, yeah, I think Grails is worth it. They've done a helluva job in getting things working as quickly as they have, and the Grails and Groovy teams are both really, really dedicated.
I am totally with you! Grails still feels so rough around the edges that it's almost a joke to compare it with Rails. If at least the error reporting was a little bit better. But I guess that's probably also due to the huge amount of libraries that it uses under the covers. One word: stacktrace! I am also not a big fan of the model->db approach (Rails has db->model). The scaffolding also leaves much room for improvements. Then "no restart required" also does not work as advertised. (I am not sure what's worse - having to restart all the time or sometimes finding weird behaviors that go away when you do restart) And don't get me started on GORM. (When it takes hours to find a way what would have been a simple SQL you start to wonder whether this whole ORM really saves you time) Maybe as long as it is simple.
I mean: it's still one of the better choices of a framework when you are coming from the java world. (So much useless crap out there that calls itself a web framework) ...it has potential. I just wish it wouldn't have build on top of so much other complex stuff.
Anyway - let's hope these things get sorted. At the moment I am lurking at playframework.org which also looks very slick and promising.
It will be worth it when they finish the eclipse plugin. The sooner the better I say. Trying to sell groovy to my boss isn't going to be simple until that happens.
I find that the biggest advantage of Grails is that I don't have to care about the database anymore - the schema is automatically created / updated, and the persistence is largely done for me (no more writing SQL queries). This is a huge relief. The other thing that is rather nice is that once you settled on the templates for controllers and views, adding new domain objects is pretty fast. Although I suspect that you will do ongoing changes for your views at least, back-fitting them to the existing ones.
As for the IDE - it seems that IntelliJ is the best option, but I'm happy using Netbeans 6.5. I use MyEclipse for all other development, but Netbeans just has better Grails support now.
I was an Eclipse user before I started using Grails. It was quickly apparent that wasn't going to cut it. So I tried Intellij and NetBeans. At the time Intellij was better as far as Groovy and Grails were concerned. However, NetBeans was free and that made it good enough for me. Since then all three have had new versions or new plugins released. I am still using NetBeans because of the cost of Intellij. With the acquisition of G2One by Spring Source one of the expectations is more support for Groovy and Grails in Eclipse. This will be necessary for increased adoption.
Using Grails for a new project is wonderful. So much of the Enterprise Java baggage is no longer necessary. I can imagine trying to port something would be difficult because until you understand where a framework strength's and weaknesses are it is hard to utilize it efficiently. It is promised that JSP support will come easier in Grails 1.1, I don't know if using a beta version while trying to grok a new framework is a good idea. The testing has also gone through a major revision for the new version. If time allows you may consider waiting as the 1.1 release should be very soon.
If you have an opportunity to give Grails a try in a different IDE when starting a project from scratch I think you will see it in a different light.
I have just started using grails on a new project...not having to write ANY xml files yet still have the power of Spring and Hibernate is truly amazing.
Use IntellijIDEA for the IDE though, I actually discovered Grails through the IDE (I might be biased though, I hate eclipse).
Totally. There are so many Java frameworks that the bar is set quite high for newcomers, and it's a testament to Grails that it was able to rise above in such a crowded space.
It still has a few edges that are sharp, but those are just a matter of time before they're matted down, the underlying project is VERY much worth it.
Grails might be to big for your type of application (based on the numerous files it created on the first initialization and the resources it takes). If you're looking for something simple, Grails might not be what you're looking for. If you are looking for something simple and works, so far I reckon django can do your job well. Take a look at how simple (how many files it requires) to create a CRUD apps from its tutorial. From here, your apps can (relatively) easy to scale as your needs and requirements grows.
I'm not sure they will ever be able to make Grails right you know. And by right I mean address all the details (small and big ones) which in the end makes it feel brittle and fragile. I'm not even sure that there is a real development team (meaning more than 2 people) behind it.
Every single time I iterate over a feature of my Grails projects, trying to improve something, it is the same workflow: everything falls apart, then it's a hundred of 'google' test cycles, then you find out the reason you can't do what you want and you do something else.
In the end, you're frustrated because you don't even want to touch anything that runs. And things that don't well, you drop them!
I'm considering a switch to Rails via JRuby. That may be the best of both worlds: a capable web framework with an active and large community, a dedicated team of developers, a platform which is not based on questionable and complex frameworks like Spring or Hibernate, a quick and ambitious release cycle. And JRuby because frankly, so many Java assets in my backpack, I can't just throw them away.
If your expertise is in Java as you say. You should have a look at Play Framework - it's a web framework inspired by Ruby on Rails with a very short development cycle - just save your Java source file and update your web browser. And if you want to try another language, Play Framework has a module that let you use Scala instead.
I like Play Framework since it's easy to understand and has good performance. You can also use JPA and Hibernate for the ORM-layer if you want.
Hey all, my Computational Science course this semester is entirely in Java. I was wondering if there was a good/preferred set of tools to use in ubuntu. Currently I use gedit with a terminal running in the bottom, but I'd like an API browser.
I've considered Eclipse, but it seems to bloated and unfriendly for quick programs.
Java editing tends to go one of two ways; people either stick with a simple editor and use a terminal to compile/run their programs, or they use a big IDE with a zillion features.
I usually go the simple route and just use a plain text editor and terminal, but there's still a lot to be said for IDEs. This is especially true when learning the language, since hitting "spam." brings up a dropdown with all of the fields and methods of the spam object. And this is not just useful to a beginner; it remains useful later on when using unfamiliar libraries and third party modules.
IDEs also have useful tools such as GUI builders which become invaluable when doing professional Java work. So although I typically prefer a simple editor/terminal combo, I highly recommend trying out an IDE such as Eclipse or Netbeans to see how you like it and so that you'll know how to use one later on.
Eclipse may be bloated for learning needs, but will probably give you the best overall Java experience. Try working through some of the built-in tutorials if you find the interface confusing.
I too vouch for eclipse (or IDEA if you have the money, actually IDEA is better than eclipse by a small margin).
But, make sure that you know how to compile and debug without an IDE first, and also learn to read the compiler's warning/error messages - they are essential skills for developers that using an IDE can prevent you from learning.
Eclipse and NetBeans are both good options. If you don't mind paying a little, so is IntelliJ IDEA (an academic license costs $99).
As far as IDEs go, I've found Eclipse to be about the best you could ask for. If you are used to IDEs full of features like VS, it should be right up your alley, and it isn't particularly resource-hungry; the way it organizes your projects makes the whole thing pretty simple as well, and it's also good to have on your resume. If you're looking for a non-intrusive IDE, mostly intuitive and that does its job as a great assistant, go with Eclipse. Not to mention its customization options.
If, on the other side, you'd like a much more light IDE, textPad-style (why?), I'd recommend Geany; I've worked with it in the past and it's got all the basic features to get started with the language and not be overwhelmed with all the features that big IDEs can offer. But I'd still recommend to go with Eclipse as soon as you get used to the language and need the IDE to be more of an assistant.
Another vote for Eclipse. In particular, you should be able to install it from within Ubuntu, as there are packages for it in one of the repositories (I forget which one specifically, as I'm not at my Ubuntu machine right this minute). If you use the GUI package-management application under the "Admin" menu, you should be able to find Eclipse and related packages.
I'd actually just recommend Eclipse. It seems bloated at first, but once you get used to it, you can use it to develop code very very quickly (and thus it's an excellent choice for a quick bit of Java).
Features I like:
Control+1 for error fixing - it knows how to fix most compile errors - just highlight the error in the code (which will be underlined in red) and it will give you a list of suggestions. Control+1 selects the first suggestion, which is almost always correct.
You can use this error fixing feature to write code that uses methods you haven't written yet - the error fixing will create the method on the class/interface you called it on, with the correct parameters/name/visibility etc. Or, if theres a similarly named method with similar parameters, it will suggest you've spelt it wrong when you called it.
The refactoring tools are also supergreat - you can highlight a block of code to extract as a method, and it'll work out what variables need to be passed in, and what it should return (if anything). You can move variables between field and methods. You can change class/interface/variable names, and it will correct them only where it needs to (which beats a search and replace any day).
You really don't need to know many eclipse features to get the benefit of using it - and it'll dramatically speed up your coding. I wish I'd known how to use it at University.
Basically, I'd recommend Eclipse. The time saved coding will make up for having to click "yes" a couple times when you start a project..
I'm using NetBeans with success right now.
I usually just use vim, but i've actually found the IDE Geany quite intuitive with a lot of good features but not really overblown. Check it out.
EDIT: I don't think Geany is fit for enterprise-level programming, but for a quick program it's one of the better IDEs I've seen, especially if you've had bad experiences with NetBeans or Eclipse as I have.
As many others, I suggest you to use Eclipse. It works fine in linux and after a few days you will find it not so unfriendly.
Moreover, if you will start developing more complex programs in java, you already will be familiar with a standard, complete and open source IDE, which is also the foundation for many other professional IDE for other languages, like Adobe Flex Builder, Aptana Red Rails and so on.
There is an interactive "IDE" designed especially for learning: BlueJ at http://www.bluej.org/
While I generally agree that Eclipse, NetBeans, or one of the other IDEs can be very helpful, they are pretty heavyweight for a learning environment; and you can end up spending your time wrestling with the IDE instead of learning Java.
In my career I've also found some people that don't really understand what the IDE is doing for them; they are totally lost without it (see Voodoo Programming). I recommend you spend at least some of your time with a simple editor, like gedit or vim, and the command line javac compiler.
BlueJ is considered a good editor for Java, tough mostly aimed at beginners. It does not bloated as Eclipse, but contains many useful features. It is also an open source project, so you are welcome to give it a try.
In our working enviroment we have to use the free Oracle JDeveloper ... sigh .. at home I tend to use Eclipse more and I really like it
Netbeans is a heavy but good IDE. Netbeans always have many features you don't really need, but because it's made with the netbeans platform, you can always strip it down to the essentials !
If you don't like all the work, go with eclipse. It's a lighter IDE.
Geany is pretty handy, don't quite know how it is with programming Java, but with programming C and C++ it's a nice light weight IDE. (BE WARNED: Building big projects usally tend to fail in geany. Workaround: compile in Geany build in terminal)
Bryan